Haitham Richani & Kerry Lam

Conversation with a chef: It’s lovely to meet you, Kerry and Haitham. Thanks for welcoming me into this beautiful room. This would be a private dining room, is that right? 

Haitham: Yes, that’s right. It seats around 14 people when it’s fully booked.

Kerry: Yes and we have the wine displayed there. And you can have a bit of privacy, it can all be closed up if people want a bit of privacy. 

It would be my dream come true, just to wander into the wine cellar. The whole venue is really beautiful as well. Ministry of Crab is upstairs and we are in the lower-level basement area. What was this? 

Haitham: Initially, this building was an old building where they had police station and currency exchange. I think over the last couple of years, they’ve tried to modernise Flinders Lane, with a dining precinct coming up, then I think they started working on this project and it was bought by the group. It will be another office building on the other floors. Then we have these two: upstairs at ground level is Ministry of Crab and where we are at II.II.VI in the basement will be more of modern Australian cuisine. We have a lot of open flame cooking. 

Kerry: The old police station was here and a backpackers used to be on top. Great combo. 

Did you have some say in the way the kitchen was set up? Was that kitchen already there or you had that was built? 

Haitham: No, that was built. 

So that’s all purpose built to the way you wanted. What a dream. 

Haitham: Yes. We had a lot of say in it, there are not many places that you can walk in and have a say in the kitchen set up. It was great that we got to see what we had envisioned come to life. 

Kerry: And this being a heritage building, there’s a lot of things that unfortunately can’t be changed in terms of structure; the power and so on and we had a few challenges, working around those things. But, like Chef said, it’s something that we actually had a bit of a say in terms of how we wanted things to be. 

Probably every weekend we would have a family gathering and use charcoal and we used charcoal. Everything always tasted better. I don’t know if it was just the gathering or because we were actually cooking over charcoal, but definitely cooking over wood or charcoal does give that flavour to the meat or to the fish, even the vegetables. From my early stages, I always liked to do the grills and I always use charcoal wherever I can. Even with the gas fired open grills, we would always throw in some charcoal just to give that extra flavour to the meat. 

Haitham Richani, ii.ii.vi

You’re going to be cooking over charcoal and wood with different kinds of flame. Can you talk me through the different kinds of grill? 

Haitham: There will be two different charcoal ovens, a basket grill. And a charcoal oven similar to a Josper. We will also be doing some smoking as well and we’ll have a rack for drying different kind of fish or using it for stock or vegetable. We have a lot to play around it. We are using the Robata to do some skewers now and we might keep it on hand and continue with doing skewers eventually when the full concept is open. Skewers are on the bar menu. People can sit up at the bar and we’ll have a smaller kind of bar menu. 

I know some of your great culinary heroes cook over flame, how much experience have you had with cooking with fire? 

Haitham: Probably every weekend we would have a family gathering and use charcoal and we used charcoal. Everything always tasted better. I don’t know if it was just the gathering or because we were actually cooking over charcoal, but definitely cooking over wood or charcoal does give that flavour to the meat or to the fish, even the vegetables. From my early stages, I always liked to do the grills and I always use charcoal wherever I can. Even with the gas fired open grills, we would always throw in some charcoal just to give that extra flavour to the meat. 

It is a bit of a science, isn’t it? There’s a lot of timing involved with when charcoal is ready to cook and when you have to replace the coals or wood and all that moving around of different things. So it’s good you’ve had lots of practice. No burns? 

Haitham: I have plenty of burns. We have to make mistakes and learn from them. Luckily we have the grills coming and we’ll get a few weeks of practice when they arrive to test different ways, because not every grill acts the same and not every charcoal acts the same or wood. They always have different heat. Sometimes the wood that you receive is bit wet, so it burns differently. You always adjust and use your experience. There’s not one set formula working over wood or charcoal. 

What kind of wood do you like to cook over? 

Haitham: Ironbark is really good.

It’s quite long burning, isn’t it? 

Haitham: Long burning, yes. And not too intense on flavour for affecting the meat taste, like other stuff. Red gum is another one, but I feel red gum gives more flavour to the meat that maybe we don’t need, a bit more smoke. 

Where’s the storage for wood? 

Haitham: We have space under the grills there to keep the wood. We’ll be getting like our supplier will deliver for us a few times a week. We won’t have to have too much on hand. We have to find space, unfortunately, but that’s part of running a kitchen. 

Kerry: Everything is stored beneath where you cook, under the heat. It’s always dry, hopefully, on the bottom, so that’s probably the best place to be keeping it. One thing that chefs like is practicality. You always want to have things that you need to use day in, day out, right where you need them and not so you need to run around and get stuff. I think that’s one thing with this kitchen where we’ve had a bit of an input. We can work more on these things because a lot of times there are consultants, there are designers, where they come in, they work, but they don’t really think of the actual flow that chefs need. And it’s only when the chefs start working, then we wonder why is this thing here? When they do the design, they just think of the look, but working wise, it’s very different. 

Even looking in through the door before into the prep kitchen, the setup there is really good as well, with that middle bench and everyone working around it. The mise en place is really important, isn’t it? Everything there, ready to go.

Is the menu a large menu? 

Haitham: It will be not too large, it’s somewhere in the middle to accommodate everyone. We will be operating on like three different menus. We’ll have that chef set menu, omakase style, with six to eight different dishes with a set price, whatever is seasonal, we will use whatever we can cook on the day and change it very often. It will be a different experience with the chef table. Then we have the banquet seating or the table seating as well, that will operate on a set menu, but with options, so it won’t be a set menu that is chosen for you, you’ll have different options and you can set choose a set of two, three, four. We have extra supplements that you can add on. And then we have the bar seating and that will be a different bar menu, bit smaller, more like tapas style, small foods, skewers, you probably can have a small steak on the bar, but there’s not much space to have like the full experience. But if someone is looking to come in for a couple of drinks, have some bites, try our food and hopefully comae back again. 

You were showing me your favourite table, which is the banquet seating over towards the back, which is a beautiful little alcove in the corner, hidden away. I wouldn’t know if I could decide between that which felt really nice or sitting up at the Chef’s Table. I always love sitting up and watching what the chefs are doing. I feel like it’s going to be quite performative, isn’t it? Because you’ve got so much flame and there’s going to be a lot going on, that would be amazing sitting out there watching that all happen. It’ll be quite cosy down here. Did you work together on the menu? 

Kerry: Yes, we did, but again, I think Chef had more of an input because it’s his kitchen. We want him to be the one in control of what he wants to do; produce, season. He was the main architect with this menu. 

Haitham: Well, I say 50, 50, I don’t want to take all the credit. Chef Kerry was busy with his Ministery of Crab. I was more concentrating on here. There was a lot going on. It was a team effort, I would say. 

When you are doing menu creation, where do you start? 

Haitham: Oh, that’s a good question. We had a test kitchen where we went and just tried different recipes. We looked at whatever’s in season, what we can get, who our suppliers are going to be. What would be at its best when we were opening? If we started planning in June and we’re opening in December or January, you have to see what’s happening at that time and start thinking ahead, because nothing is guaranteed. Usually when you’re opening a restaurant, you’re probably aiming to open in two months, but sometimes you delay an opening by a year, so looking ahead is always a key. Choose your ingredients wisely, see what’s available, get in contact with suppliers, see what stuff you can get and get the ingredients that you need, take them back to the kitchen and play around. Don’t be scared to be adventurous, take inspiration from different chefs. there are so many great chefs out there. Take that inspiration. We’re not creating something new. We’re just putting it with a twist. 

Is the twist the fire or what’s the twist? 

Haitham: The fire or some other elements to the dish. Australian cuisine is very broad and there’s a lot of different ingredients. Some come from Japan, some come from Spain, some Mediterranean, a lot of European influence. And just seeing that dish and how it can be incorporated in our menu, for example labneh, which is a Middle Eastern ingredient and adding something like wasabi, which is like very Japanese. Then playing with these two ingredients to create a different flavour which is great with fish because wasabi and fish is really good. 

Kerry: I think that’s also the beauty of being in Australia. There are so many different cultures that we can incorporate into the actual cuisine, different techniques. Sometimes you mix something that’s not usually mixed and it can become something beautiful. With Australia being so multicultural, there’s a lot of potential in terms of ingredients from all around the world. Plus local produce is abundant. 

Obviously you get your inspiration from local produce and what’s in season and so on. But are you looking through books? Do you look online? Do you look to other chefs? Where do the ideas come from? 

Haitham: Looking online is great. Everyone now scrolls through their Instagrams, through their Facebook posts, follow a lot of different places. Also going out and dining in different places. I think that’s the best, experiencing other people’s food, like Navi restaurant, chef Jules is doing some great stuff. That’s my favourite restaurant. And Cumulous up the road. There’s a few other restaurants, Cutler and Co is another one. Going out, trying different things. Even if it’s something that you’re not too keen on, you might be surprised. A lot of people say, ah, I don’t eat caviar or I don’t eat tuna or I don’t eat this because they’ve never had the experience of good produce or great stuff. Give everything a chance. Reading books is great and taking some recipes from out of great chefs and bringing it back to the kitchen and trying it. Try to not copy and paste, just put a twist on it, make it your own somehow. 

Do you write your ideas down? Do you keep notebooks or is it just all stored away in your head and then you can bring it out when you need to? 

Haitham: As a chef, I think your biggest friend is a notebook. You can only store so much information in your head, but eventually you’re going to forget. I encourage all the chefs starting in the kitchen. First thing I tell them is a notebook and a pen and write everything down, because eventually it’s going to be your Bible down the road. You’re going to be looking back, maybe one day you can’t come up with something new, you want to design a menu, and you go back, scroll through all these recipes and make up your mind. 

That would be the same for not just flavours, but I guess for techniques as well, that when you learn from other people and see that they’re doing things in a way you hadn’t thought of before, it would be good to note that down as well. 

Haitham: Yeah, exactly. Keep an open mind as well. I’ll always let my chefs make mistakes. If I see them making something wrong, I don’t jump in and correct them straight away. I wait for them to finish, and I explain what’s going wrong and what they did or not do. And sometimes I get surprised. Sometimes they end up with a better result than I thought it would be and then we take that method to incorporate it. I learn from everyone, even the commis and kitchen hands. 

Kerry: I think food is very similar to, you know, clothing trends. It could have been out of trend for so long, but suddenly what’s out of fashion starts becoming fashion again. We always have to consider that something that is out of fashion, we can just put a new twist on it, a new technique on it, or plate it up a bit differently, it can be the new trend again. Like Chef said, we need to keep an open mind and not be afraid of changes because everything is constantly changing. 

Haitham: Even watching some TV shows like MasterChef and back in the day was Iron Chef and all these Netflix series like Culinary Wars. For new chefs watching these shows where there’s actually qualified, very good chefs in the kitchen working together and just going through some ideas on the fly, it’s good.

I was going to ask where it all started for you, but I did read in your bio that you were working front of house in Adelaide and then one day you stepped into the kitchen. Maybe you could tell me about that. 

Haitham: It was back in the day, I was working in like small family restaurant in Adelaide and there were two brother partners. One was the head chef, and the second was the stakeholder. I’m not sure what happened between them. Two brothers always arguing, always fighting and it ended up that the head chef, who was one of the partners, just walked out of the kitchen, they decided they’d had enough, and we had bookings that day; probably around 30 people. I looked at everyone and no one stepped up, and he was the only chef. We had a couple of juniors, but no one really knew the menu, knew the flavours. So I said, okay, I’ll have to do it. I walked into the kitchen, and I started cooking. It wasn’t pretty. I think there were some sores and a few burns that day to remember, but at least there was the start of something. It was very intense, but even 30 people, maybe not a big number, but we managed to do it. I don’t remember if we had any complaints or not, but everyone got some food on their table and after that, I decided, okay, I like the kitchen, I want to go into the kitchen. I decided to go and study as a chef, and I went to TAFE and I continued the journey. That was over 20 years ago. 

That’s really great and it sounds like you already had a bit of a taste for it because it sounds as though your family did a bit of cooking and you did some of that at home, and then you were interested in hospitality working front of house. I think it’s good actually for chefs to work front of house first to create that harmony. When I worked as a waitress a long time ago, there was a real divide between front of house and back of house. 

Kerry: Which is always the case. 

I think so. But it’s nice to have some kind of understanding of what the other is going through. 

Haitham: I thought my experience from front of house and back of house would bring people together more, but it’s impossible. 

Oh, so it’s still a thing. 

Haitham: I think they just love bickering with each other. But my experience as front of house helps a lot with the chef table, having that conversation with customers. Even now with the soft opening that we’re going through, a lot of people sat up at the chef’s table last week and everyone was just having conversations and talking to the chef and having that kind of experience with customer service is great. 

Adelaide sounds like it’s a great place to learn about cooking. So is Melbourne, of course. I’m actually going to Adelaide in two weeks’ time and I’m very excited. We’re staying in the Adelaide Hills, and I can’t wait. But I’ve heard that there is so much good food and wine there that it would have been a really interesting place to learn. 

Haitham: They have a lot of fresh produce in Adelaide. When I first started actually, I loved to drive. I used to love going for long drives. There is a place called Virginia, where all the vegetable growers are. I remember one day I could see we were paying so much money for produce, going through fruit and vege suppliers. I said, okay, let’s go to Virginia and see what the farm comes up with. It became my weekly thing to take the car, the boss bought me a station wagon and I used to drive to Virginia, pick up all the fresh produce for the restaurant for the whole week, which was great because I met so many farmers and that relationship with the farmers meant I managed to save so much money for the restaurant. And I was getting paid for a day that I spent on the road, so it was a win win. I learned so much from them. 

That could be a good TV show, you just driving around in a station wagon, talking to farmers, discovering what produce is out there. Nice. And Kerry, where did it start for you? 

Kerry: Back in the day when I was still probably like, six, seven years old, my parents ran a restaurant for two years. My dad, before being in the restaurant, was working as a salesman for a chicken company. After that they jumped into the restaurant thing. Then we stayed in the food scene, but more like making snacks and everything. After I finished my studies, I thought, why not come to Australia and do the cooking course? I started my apprenticeship, then worked at Crown for 10, 12 years, for a few outlets. I was working at Coco’s for seven, eight years. That’s pretty much where I got my whole training, mostly Japanese. I was working under a really strict head chef. It was not like now where you try not to shout, back in the day, you get something thrown at you if you do something wrong or you are shouted at. In a way, that was a good learning curve for us to be training others, when we got a bit further down the path. I guess that’s how it all started, I grew up in the food scene, but as soon as I came here, I think that’s what I wanted to do. My dad, when I was saying, oh, I want to go to Australia, and maybe do the cooking course, he said, “Are you sure you don’t want to do more on the patisserie side? Because you start early, you finish early. But then I’m not really into sweets. Personally, I think it’s a lot more precise. You have to be really spot on in terms of what you do. But cooking is a lot wider where you can change things, adjust things. I stuck to cooking. 

You are still here, so you obviously both love it. 

Haitham: Having good palate as a young person is not always good, because everyone is annoyed when you critique their food. 

Well, with all your experience in mind, what would your advice be to young people starting out as a chef or in hospitality? 

Haitham: Take care of the details. Start with a notebook, pencil first. Learn how to chop an onion, master the onion. I think that’s something Gordon Ramsay said. Master the onion and work your way up. Master every ingredient. For example, the Japanese have so much respect for every element, every ingredient, so have that respect. When you master one element, don’t try to skip any steps. Go from the basics all the way up. And find a good head chef that you can work under and absorb the information. You might have to sacrifice a little bit of pay, but in in the long run, it will pay off. Also, failure is part of the industry: don’t be scared to fail, always try, keep trying. But in saying that, try not to just copy someone or follow someone, take yourself out of the comfort zone and try different things. A lot of people started in the industry, and they just worked in one place their whole career and they only know that restaurant. That’s not a bad thing. It’s a good thing in terms of loyalty and they’ll definitely learn but also going from one place to another is another way to learn; working under many great head chefs or many great executives will also help develop your career. 

Kerry: I think they have to have the actual passion for the industry, especially, the new generation. They just want to come in, work, go home. But I think hospitality as a whole, there’s a lot of sacrifice you need to make. Long hours, probably less pay, especially where you’re starting. I think that’s what, especially the younger generation need to kind of think about before they jump in and start cooking. It’s not just as simple as going in the kitchen and cook. There’s a lot of sacrifice included in that whole journey. 

Thank you. I can’t wait to come back. I’m going to sit right there and look at all the flames. 

Haitham: You are welcome to come into the kitchen and try cooking with us. A Master Class. We’ll start a new series called Cooking with Jo. Why not? 

II.II.VI, 226 Flinders Lane, Melbourne