When I first spoke to Kyle Nicol back in late 2020, he was head chef at Rascal, and Melbourne was lurching in and out of lockdown. He was already thinking deeply about sustainability in kitchens, not just in terms of produce, but of chefs themselves. Five years on, Kyle’s covered a lot of ground: Lilac, Hazel, a string of pop-ups, consulting, foraging, and even a side project in charcuterie. He’s also hit burnout, had knee surgery, and taken a step back to reset. What hasn’t changed is his generosity, both in cooking and in spirit. Kyle’s the kind of chef other chefs call when they need help, the one who’ll share knowledge, jump on a service, or roll pasta at home just because. We caught up to talk about balance, identity in hospitality, and what it means to give your all without giving yourself away.
Hi, Kyle. Nice to see you again. I was listening to the chat we did five years ago, it was the end of 2020 when you were at Rascal. I think it was a really great chat. We covered a lot of ground. And now you’ve covered a lot of ground again since then. How are you?
I’m good. It feels like a lifetime.
At that stage we’d had some lockdowns and then you were open again. But then so much more happened after that. And then there was a whole new way of life.
The Rascal period was lots of ups and downs through COVID. I ended up closing a business that was doing quite well at points. I had a bit of a break in between then landed at the Mulberry group to do Lilac, then over to Hazel and now I’m just in a space where I’m figuring out the next stage where I get up to.
Is that a reset for you?
For sure.
But you’re still really busy because you’re helping friends out all over the place with pop-ups and things. Are you able to relax?
I’m getting better at it. I think working so passionately and so committed to my craft for so long, it’s hard to switch off, but in recent times, I’ve made a lot more effort to try and separate myself from the work a bit because if it’s not your whole life, it’s hard to really be as good as you can be at it.
But then in our first chat, we did talk about sustainability of chefs and looking after yourself as well, and I think that it’s such a hard one, isn’t it? Because when you’re really passionate about something and you really throw yourself into it, it’s exhausting as well. It’s exhausting, but it’s fulfilling
It’s a hard balance to try and get, because you’re grinding and you’re growing and you’re going ahead, but at the same time, you have to try and keep sight of things outside of that and making sure you’re still giving yourself enough energy as well.
How do you do that?
That’s something that I’m still working on, to be honest. I go out and forage a lot. I play guitar, I do a few bits and pieces, but it’s hard to step away from it when a lot of my hobbies are related to food.
You need to make sure you’re topping yourself up while you’re doing that. I think to be successful in the restaurant game, you give all of yourself and if you don’t, it’s always going to be a lot harder. It’s a balancing act. If you’re just thinking of that product and turning numbers and getting people in and out, then it’s never going to be as good as someone that puts their heart and soul into it. That balance is the hard part.
Kyle Nicol
I feel like, as you say, you want to be top of the game, and you certainly are. Is your mind going all the time? I feel like you take on lots of new challenges and you’ve mastered butchery and foraging and fermenting and preserving as well as running a kitchen and consulting. It’s a lot.
I’ve been pushing like that for a long time now. I hit some pretty serious burnout in the last few months, which is why I’m taking some time to reset and see how things are looking next. I think running restaurants is a graft of giving really.
So you need to be filled up yourself.
You need to make sure you’re topping yourself up while you’re doing that. I think to be successful in the restaurant game, you give all of yourself and if you don’t, it’s always going to be a lot harder. It’s a balancing act. If you’re just thinking of that product and turning numbers and getting people in and out, then it’s never going to be as good as someone that puts their heart and soul into it. That balance is the hard part.
And I think from what I see and from speaking to other people, you might be one of the nicest people in the industry. You’ve got a lot of fans I can see on Instagram. I spoke to Chris Wong when he was at Lilijana Eatery in Port Melbourne and he said if he ever ran into any kind of problem, or he needed some help, he always knew he could ask you. And I just thought, it’s really great to have people like you in the industry, because it is hospitality and I think a lot of people aren’t necessarily hospitable.
Yeah, that’s true.
So it’s good when the good ones are there.
When you step back and look at hospitality, I think most people get into it for the right reasons, because they want to give people a good time and share their culture or what they want to do. I’m grateful to be able to help everyone that I can and share my experience and try and help people that are fighting for something that they believe in. I’ll always kind of reach out and help you.
Things have changed in the last five years in all domains and obviously we talk about that a lot in hospitality about the challenges. And I never really liked to dwell on the dark side of things I like to be uplifting, but what for you would be the biggest challenge in hospitality at the moment?
That’s a good question. I think the new wave of hospitality now is things are becoming a bit more branded and template kind of product focus. And I feel like a lot of venues are just popping open and replicating something else. I feel like identity of places is getting saturated a little bit in Melbourne. There are a lot of new ones popping up, which have some pretty special identities as well. I think trying to be authentic and unique in this industry is always hard to do. That and trying to get young people coming through the industry still is pretty tricky. I’ve found a few gems over the past few years, a couple of amazing apprentices. But I feel like it’s getting harder and harder to attract people that actually want to come into restaurants and do the work and not just come in and become a celebrity chef straightaway. That’s another side of the industry, which can be lucrative or it can be beneficial, but finding less and less people who want to come in and actually do the work to be a chef or to be a restaurant manager. There’s a lot of skipping of steps and so trying to get skill levels up to a strong point is the challenging part.
When you are working with young people or people new to the industry, what are the key things that you’re trying to share with them?
For me, I just need to see passion and effort and a love for giving people a good time is the big thing. People make restaurants and hospitality out to be this big crazy puzzle. I think it’s just about giving people a good time. The business side is another side to make the numbers work, but it boils down to just giving people a good time, making them happy. So then it’s about surrounding yourself with people that want to give and are passionate about it. That’s the main thing, I think.
I’ve been a chef for coming up to close to 20 years. But there is always a lot more to learn. I can learn a lot from Dan about Thai food. I’ve been helping out Mischa over at Kolkata Cricket Club, so I’ve learned about Indian food as well. There’s no limit with food. You can never know everything or be the best at everything. That is not possible.
Kyle Nicol
And the pop-up that you’re doing at the moment or your friends are doing the pop-up and you’re helping is that a testing ground for a later restaurant?
Yeah. I’ve been helping with a few at the moment. I’m kind of jumping around, helping out a few friends. Some friends of mine, you know, Dan (Sawansak)? So Dan’s doing a pop-up, and I think that will probably end up being a space. He’s been doing it for a long time and it’s been amazing to work with him and learn some more detail about traditional Thai food and it’s been a dive into that and learn from him as well. I’ve been a chef for coming up to close to 20 years. But there is always a lot more to learn. I can learn a lot from Dan about Thai food. I’ve been helping out Mischa over at Kolkata Cricket Club, so I’ve learned about Indian food as well. There’s no limit with food. You can never know everything or be the best at everything. That is not possible.
So there’s still joy in it for you working with food. It’s just maybe thinking about a different way or having a little break for now.
For sure. Not even a break. Just a change in in direction and trying to preserve myself and be a bit smarter about how I use my energy. But yeah, at the end of the day, I’m a cook. I’m a chef and that’s my life and what I love to do.
Would you ever want your own place?
Yeah. I’ve been looking at a couple of sites recently. I’ve got a couple of ideas that I’m playing around with, but it’ll be about timing and the right space.
Do you cook for yourself a home?
Up until recently, not at all. But I’ve been cooking a lot at home lately, which has been really enjoyable as well.
What do you do make? Do you just potter around or do you like to use cookbooks. I feel like chefs always have walls of cookbooks, but that they are mainly for
At home, I usually just cook things that are about comfort or if there’s something that I feel like doing, like the other day I hand rolled some pasta just because I hadn’t made pasta in a while and I felt like doing that. I made some pâté en croûte the other day, casually at home. That ties into one of the businesses I’m working on trying to get a charcuterie business going. So playing around with a bit of that at home. You asked me about the cookbooks. I do have a huge wall of cookbooks and they are covered in dust. I think the real old books are real good ones for references. I think the one I mostly pick up is the old Larousse, just for reference, for inspiration for something I haven’t done and then use that as a base.
I think it is about the people in the space at the end of the day. You can create beautiful spaces that last forever. But it’s the people that are inside them and operate them that make them special.
Kyle Nicol
What have you been foraging lately?
Mushrooms. It’s been a good season for native mushrooms. Not a good season for introduced ones like pine mushrooms, slippery Jacks.
I am going to a mushroom dinner tomorrow night in Port Melbourne. It’s Jo Corrigan and her partner Matt and they’re bringing in mushrooms, Morels. That’s going to be a great.
Matt and Jo are great people. They’ve been doing that for a long time; foraging and so on.
I went and spoke to Jo and walked around the farm a few years ago out at Romsey and it was just incredible. What’s on today? You’re going to work?
I’m helping some friends of mine open a pub up the road called The Carpenter’s Ruin next to the Walrus Oyster bar. Some friends of mine have just taken over. I think it was the Wolf space. It used to be Karen Martini’s space. The Walrus is next door. They’re just taking that over and opening a little community pub there, which seems to be going really well so far.
People are after the pub vibes these days. People want their comfort and a relaxed space. What’s your favourite thing you’re eating at the moment or that you are hanging out for?
That’s a hard question.
I don’t think I’d be able to answer it either. People ask me what my favourite restaurant is? It’s hard for me to pick.
Yeah. It’s hard for me to pick favourite restaurants. I could pick favourite people that I want to spend time with in a venue.
That’s even nicer.
I think it is about the people in the space at the end of the day. You can create beautiful spaces that last forever. But it’s the people that are inside them and operate them that make them special. Tiny Bar. I need to go back to Tiny Bar, where I ran into you last time.
Zac is so nice and so clever with the food in that tiny space. Love it.
He had a knee surgery last week. It’s part of the chef thing. I had a knee surgery a year and a half ago, which was pretty full on. I’m good now, recovered.
Have you had to change the way you work?
For sure.
How do you do that though?
Well, that’s the struggle, I suppose. Chefs are like athletes or anyone who works on their feet all day. You can’t do it forever. I had the knee injury and I had a back injury as well and that has made me think about next things.
So much has been happening, Kyle. Thank you. I don’t want to keep you too much longer since you’ve got lots of things to do, but it’s so nice to talk again.