Jess Liemantara

Conversation with a chef: Hi Jess, how are you? When did I speak to you last? Was it in 2018?

Jess Liementara: I knew your name, but I don't know how long ago we had our interview.

I came into Nobu and, and it was just after you'd been on MasterChef and you showed me some proofs for the book that you were going to self-publish, and then you did publish that. I feel like a lot has happened since then.

Yes, the book was 2019 or 2020.

That's right. And you've been back on MasterChef twice. You're very busy.

Yes. I went back three times. I was on season 10 then the MasterChef AllStar sand then Dessert Masters.

And then you launched your own business. Was that over Covid?

Yes. Well, I started off with a Covid business, which was obviously from home, and then it became an established business with an investing group. Sadly we had to close it in 2022. That's when I started moving on in 2023 to Neds and became Head of Innovation there.

I read the title: Head of Innovation and Development. It's a very grand name, isn't it?

Oh, it's not as scary as it sounds.

What does it mean? How do you spend your days?

I wake up at five am and get to work around six, and then we have all the lamination to do, that's all the croissant work, and we do the shaping. We do all the different types of jams and honeys, and then essentially we create all the different pastries for the store. I guess that's what the innovation is.

I read somewhere that you had to learn a bit more about the viennoiserie side of things, so maybe, can you, is that the laminating in that sort of thing? Yes, correct.

I didn't have any experience in laminating croissants, I've always been in mousses and tarts and anything that's pastry goods, but never been in viennoiserie, which is obviously croissants, pains au chocolat and escargots. I went in for a trial and then they taught me everything they could on the first day, and then they said they'd like me to come on board full time. From there I was able to learn everything. I was trained by one of the best viennoiserie teachers – Guillaume – and then after that, I was promoted to Head of Innovation when it got taken over by Matteo.

What's the secret to good of viennoiserie and good laminating?

I think a variety of things. It starts with a great dough, and then you need to use really great quality butter. The butter we use is not like the normal butter that you get at home. It's got a higher melting point, so when it proves it doesn't melt like normal butter and the next thing is understanding how to laminate. If you don't get the lamination right, you don't get the nice layers that you get in pastry. It really is a team effort. You've got someone who starts at 11.00pm to make the dough, then I do the laminating and shaping, and then you've got someone that starts at 2:00 AM to do all the bake off. And they get sent to the stores. So it's quite a team effort.

That seems like quite a long process and it's very physical, isn't it? Do you have to be 'laminating fit'.

I guess so. It's quite a big job. It's a three-day process. The dough is made the day prior so that you can ferment to get flavour. Then usually we have the guys doing all of the mixing because it's quite a heavy job. I do all the lamination and the shaping, and then we've got somebody doing the baking. So yes, it does require quite a lot of physical and mental capabilities to do it, but I think anyone can do it when they've got the practice.

So that's for croissants and pains au chocolat and those kinds of things. Are there other goods that have that method?

Even puff pastry uses the lamination method. It's all about creating the layers so that when it goes into the oven, the butter releases and then that becomes an extra layer. It is essentially used in a lot of different types of pastries, even in bread. It is quite a hard skill to understand and I'm quite fortunate to have to learned it here.

Have you got some new creations at Ned's that you have introduced? I read somewhere about bombs.

Oh, yeah. That was a collective group name. I think that they really like the name bombs. It was to replace our doughnuts, essentially. It's laminated pastry with the nice streaks on top. That's the exposed lamination. Then we fill it up with a cookie and insert it with a nice custard and jam filling.

When you are coming up with these ideas for new products or new combinations of flavour, where does it start for you? Do you draw a picture or do you start thinking of flavours first? Are you writing things down? What's your process?

I think it's a variety of things. I think either it tells a story or it's something that we particularly favour in terms of flavour combinations. For example, like cherry coconut, we try to incorporate that into a dessert. And then there are trends, like the cookie was such a trend, and we thought that we didn't want to do the same as other people , and that's why we made it into a doughnut bomb. I put the cookie inside so that it becomes more of a brownie than it is a dry cookie. It really depends on the season. When fruits are in season, we obviously like to use the nice stone fruits in our desserts and cherries. We go crazy with cherries. We'd either make it, cherry and kirsch, we make sour cherries. It really depends on the actual season and what we're currently in, which inspires us to make desserts.

It sounds very much like Willy Wonka. It sounds very creative. I think that's the thing with dessert and pastry, isn't it? Obviously savoury is very creative as well, but there's a whole flight of fancy that you can do with desserts because of all the colours and the architecture and all of that kind of thing with some of those treats.

When we spoke before you said you had always felt very drawn to sweets and dessert and that definitely hasn't stopped. Where do you go from here? Can you just keep inventing more and more things?

I think it's endless. I feel like dessert or food in general always changes each year. The trends always change. Our palates are also changing and we're introducing different types of chemicals to create different modification in desserts or in savoury. I feel like we are never at an end point for desserts or creations because there's always going to be something that's different. Some things like coffee and orange that's been such a conspiracy has now become a thing. And even new emerging fruits or food combinations have always been such an inspiring aspect as well for dessert. It's ever changing. I think there will be a time where you get writer's block and you're trying to think what else can we create? But I feel like people always like the classic and they always come back to that. We don't always have to think outside of the box for desserts.

I just saw the write-up on Broadsheet with you giving some suggestions of places around town to eat at for various things. I'm not really a big dessert eater and my sister-in-law always likes to ask me for advice on places to go. She wanted to know where to go in the city for dessert? And I actually had no idea, but it's become quite a big thing, the dessert bar idea, hasn't it?

Oh, absolutely. I feel like Melbourne is like the capital for ice cream. The only dessert I like is ice cream. And I feel like there's heaps of places that have just recently opened, which is Homm Dessert, which is in Melbourne Central. They've got, I think, three or four locations. You've also got Bingsoo, you've got Scoopy Milk Bar, Hareruya Pantry, which is also a very trending one where it's a mochi ice cream. And if you're looking for more ofthe mousse cakes, Koi has just recently opened up in Melbourne. I think they're going to open up a dessert degustation bar as well. There are so many emerging dessert places and everyone's always looking for desserts at night.

That's right. When I was much younger, I used to love desserts. And I remember there was some kind of saying that said, life's short, just eat dessert. So perhaps we are back to that.

I'm trying to cut on the sugar, because at work we just have pastries galore. I need to be more strong in my mindset with that.

Now, in the intervening years, I know you have worked at some pretty amazing places, since I spoke to you. You were at Nobu, but where did you go after that?

So I started off actually in OmNom in the Adelphi Hotel. That's where I was working casual. And then I started working at the Press Club full time. That was more a little bit of savoury and sweet at the same time. Then I moved back to Nobu, because Nobu was where I started as a waitress. They accepted me as a pastry chef there to do my traineeship and I was able to understand how they do banquets and then understand service at Nobu. I loved it there. That was before Covid happened. Then I opened my own business. That's my whole journey.

When you are not at work, what's your favourite thing to eat?

Dessert wise?

No, just anything.

I'm a big sucker for Ramen. I can eat Ramen every single day.

That's good. And it's feels so nutritious, as though you've got goodness coursing through your veins when you're eating ramen. What should people be trying when they go into Ned's right now?

Oh, my favourite would be the Escargot and the Almond Nettes. But you definitely also have to try the pistachio bombs because we make the pistachio paste completely from scratch, and it's filled with a pistachio custard and dark chocolate cookie. That is one of my favourites. And of course the Almond Croissant is also really great. I think those are our four standouts. I'm really surprised that Kouign-amman, which is like a pastry, which is caramelized on the bottom with some buckwheat isn't our most popular, but yet it is my most favourite pastry. I do hope that people try give that a try, because it is one of my favourites.

I really like those. And I really like canele as well.

Yes, the canele too. And the carrot cake. My colleague makes the carrot cake and it's the best. So that is a must try.

Okay. That's a long list. Great. And how many Ned's are there now?

There's still four locations. And we've got our factory in Cremorne. But I think that they're still thinking of expanding, and we also put a lot of our products Ines Wine Bar, Meatball and Tartine, which are part of the group too.

Well, congratulations on being Head of Innovation. It is so perfect for you.

Ned's Bake: South Yarra, Middle Park, Albert Park, Armadale