Partners in life and love, Patrick Kwong and Cindy Pan opened Ronin Omakase almost two years ago in the space that was previously occupied by Massi and for a millisecond, Cucina Povera. The high-ceilinged industrial slab feel of the room serves as the perfect backdrop for Patrick to shine and shine he does. Patrick learned Japanese cuisine and, more specifically sushi from two Japanese masters. His technique and flavours are exceptional. But Patrick's food is only one part of the experience at Ronin. Patrick, himself describes what he does as five nights of clubbing. That's two sessions a night, five nights a week of Patrick DJing, preparing and serving food and entertaining guests with stories and descriptions of the food, not to mention the shots of sake in between. No wonder the waitlist for the 20 spots a night is over 4000 deep. This was such a fun chat. Patrick and Cindy clearly love what they do and they exude a passion for food and hospitality. They told me to come in for omakase, and I can't wait to do so, but perhaps, they gently suggested, come to the earlier session. "It's less of a club."
Conversation with a Chef: I've been reading a bit about Ronin and you. I've read a few different things. One publication said there were 10 seats and another one said 20 seats andI counted 17.
Patrick Kwong: Basically the whole day over two sessions is 18 to 20. One session, I do eight and sometimes I do 10. The total of the whole day would be 18 to 20.
CwaC: You've got 4,000 people on the waiting list. That's so great.
PK: More than that. Basically demand is there. That's all I can do. I can't do much more than 20 a day.
CwaC: That's amazing to have that kind of following is really excellent. And I guess that came from the popup.
PK: Yes, from the popup. Basically, the popup was market research for almost one year to see how it goes. There's always up and down. We never know what's happening. So that's why we decided to do a popup first. Then if it went well, we could continue to do so, and then suddenly we had an opportunity to open up a place. It was a rare opportunity for me. I was surprised to have my own place so quickly, after just one year of the pop up.
CwaC: I know. And you're young.
PK: Oh, I'm not young. I'm in a 30 plus, so I'm not young anymore.
CwaC: But still. To have your own place in Melbourne, it is a great achievement. And did you always have the idea of being a rule breaker with omakase? How did that come about?
PK: I always have the thought of rule breaking as a life rule. Our parents taught me this, we are going to go do another thing. So what my master taught me, all the basics are there. And I'm trying to do something else that my master doesn't want to do. That's how I want to break all the rules, trying to do something different. But the base is there. But I want to do something beyond what they expect me to do. Rather than the traditional way, focusing on one thing. I always want flavour because I was born in Malaysia and the flavour is complex. So we play around with all the flavours, all the five senses. At the end of the day, I want to have fun, enjoy the flavours and that's what it is all about.
CwaC: And what rules are you breaking?
PK: Basically, if you see the traditional way of Nigiri, it's just fish and wasabi and rice. That's the most traditional way. But for me, I always play around with the flavour, such as one of my nigiri, I do Hainanese fish rice, so Hainanese flavour with a fish. So that's how I'm trying to do something else.
CwaC: I read something about an Italian influence as well.
PK: Oh yes. Because my partner in life and work does most ofthe desserts. We do desserts like tiramisu. But we put something Japanese in, we put a miso in there. I call it Tiramiso. So that's the playing part as well. It's a bit different, just trying to do some fun food with good flavour.
I always have the thought of rule breaking as a life rule. Our parents taught me this, we are going to go do another thing. What my master taught me, all the basics are there. And I’m trying to do something else that my master doesn’t want to do. That’s how I want to break all the rules, trying to do something different. I always want flavour because I was born in Malaysia and the flavour is complex. We play around with all the flavours, all the five senses. At the end of the day, I want to have fun, enjoy the flavours and that’s what it is all about. ~ Patrick Kwong, Ronin Omakase
CwaC: Great. So you've got 13 courses.
PK: Yes,13 courses, the minimum is 13 courses. But we can add things on. Everyone has got to feel full after they have been here. I'm a very big eater as well, so my customer are big eaters, and they want to end up going out from here feeling full. And then they just go home, relax.
CwaC: Nice. Do you prepare it in front of them?
PK: Basically all the preparation will be done in one day. I prep all the sauce, all the basic stuff, all the soup stock and everything on Monday. And I'm doing just a nigiri, like a showcase in front of them. All the slicing is really pre sliced because there's a lot of things going on with one nigiri slice of fish because I'm scoring every two part of the side. So you can see there's line scoring there. There's a lot of work to be done as well. So Monday is my sauce and stock and everything else and on Tuesday before the services start, three hours before, I start slicing the fish already and do all the things that need to be done. The rest is just showcase, just keep pushing on two hours service.
CwaC: It's quite intense because everyone's looking at you and you're doing it twice a night. And it sounds to me, from what I've read, that it's a really fun time and there's some great music and some shots of sake.
PK: Yes. Well, because I am more on the party side. I'm not sure you understand what Ronin is, it's more a rowdy kind of thing. I'm always on a club side, on a party side. I want my customer to party while having omakase. I'm most about having shots, drinks. It's like youre going to a club but having food. That's all I want to do.
CwaC: What a good time.
PK: Im always trying to make a good time. I try as my best I can. It's like I'm a DJ and I'm just creating a vibe for them.
CwaC: That's a lot to think about though.
PK: There's a lot.
CwaC: There's lots of techniques you're using as well, food wise as well as DJing.
PK: And communication as well. That's the most important part: communication. And obviously I can't cater for everyone as well. There's no hundred per cent. I try to do as much as I can to make them happy and I also feel happy.
CwaC: I loved reading that you can't be late here, and in fact people should be early, which is good. I'm always early for things, and my partner is always really late. So I do love that other people are demanding punctuality. How does the night go? So people arrive here and then what happens?
PK: So once people arrive here on time, one of the hostesses will greet them and then they're going to sit you at the table and start explaining the drinks, how things going with the menu. If someone is late, I'm still going to serve them food. I just put it in front of them because I feel like theyve already paid.
CP: Because there are other omakase where they just skip the course they miss. Because everyone knows that omakase is only one chef and everyone should be there at the same time. And then the course starts. It's on our conditions as well, our booking policy. That's why we ask people to at least come if not early, but make sure to be on time because we do have a second session to cater for. And then also if the majority of the people arrive, he can't really just wait for one booking that's going to ruin other people's experience. But it's pretty hard in the city, especially nowadays. The traffic has become so bad. But we're still trying to maintain the standard. Make sure you come on time and that's why we set up this area. If you want to come earlier, you can sit down, have a drink while we prepare the table.
CwaC: It's a show as well, isn't it? That's what you're saying. It's a whole experience. You can't turn up to a theatre late, when the show has already started. It won't wait for you.
PK: But to me, even though they are late, I just serve them food. They just miss out the introduction and stuff like that. But also I do try to catch them up, explaining things as fast as I can.
CwaC: Are there hot and cold dishes?
PK: Hot and cold. Yes. Mostly room temperature and the soup is hot. But one person doing this is already a lot.
CwaC: And is it different every day? Or every week?
PK: Well, weekly I would say.
CP: It really depends on supply. That's the good and bad about omakase. A lot of people thought we are purposefully inconsistent. But for us sometimes we actually want to be consistent, but they don't always have the same ingredient. It's good and bad. Because some dishes are really popular. You might want to do it next week as well, but you cant. People come in and say they tasted something so good, but then when their friend comes, it's different or they can't have it. And they were like, oh, my friend told us.
CwaC: That adds to the magic, doesn't it? You dont know what you're getting. Cindy, I read that you didn't use to like raw fish, so how's that going?
CP: I can eat all of his stuff. So I found it quite cool. A lot of people know that he made the whole menu for me. A lot of people said why did he choose something that I don't like at all, raw fish? But at the end of the day he pulled off the challenge. So it turned out well. And it turns out there's a lot of people like me. I'm happy that people like me can also enjoy omakase.
CwaC: And you're a more of a pastry chef, are you?
CP: That's a rumour. I'm a chef. But I love making dessert. That's one of my interests. Mostly I do dessert here and that's why people thought that. But actually I'm a chef. My background is French and Italian, more Western style.
CwaC: Okay. Did you meet through hospitality?
PK: No, not really.
CP: Actually Instagram. We met online. We have a lot of interests in common. And then we work well together.
I can eat all of his stuff. So I found it quite cool. A lot of people know that he made the whole menu for me. A lot of people said why did he choose something that I don’t like at all, raw fish? But at the end of the day he pulled off the challenge. So it turned out well. And it turns out there’s a lot of people like me. I’m happy that people like me can also enjoy omakase. ~ Cindy Pan, Ronin Omakase
CwaC: Did you both always know you wanted to be chefs?
CP: I did. I think that's the only thing about us that is different. We started off for completely different reasons. I really want to be a chef, it's my dream career and all that. I came here after high school, I studied at Le Cordon Bleu. And then I graduated. and found a job and I tried to settle here. We literally came in the same year. But he can tell his own story. He actually didn't really want to be a chef at the beginning.
PK: I didn't have any interest in being a chef. The reason I was lucky to know all these things is just because when I was after high school back in Malaysia, my dad knew one of that first generation of the Japanese master chefs who migrated to Malaysia. I got introduced to go to work there. And after that I got kicked out from the house. It's a very classic Asian teaching way.
CP: For boys.
PK: For boys. And then I just learned from this master two, three years from basic stuff from kitchen hand without any study. I didnt go to uni, but I worked for two, three years. And then I jumped to another Japanese master to learn more. He's more specialized on sushi, a sushi master. And previous master was just doing all the basic cooking. But he's really good at kaiseki style. Kaiseki is a bit of a different style, more on preparation, cooking, precision, all in the kitchen mostly.
CP: Have you heard of Matsu in Footscray, there's only four seats. There is a lot of omakase now in Melbourne, but they're all a little bit different. Kaiseki is more cooked food, plating. More elegant, in really fancy bowls. They focus more on presentation. They respect the original flavour of the food ingredients. And so it's a lighter flavour.
PK: Mine is a bit of sushi omakase and 10% on the hot food stuff. The majority is sushi. So it's a bit different from kaiseki and sushi omakase. I learned most of what I know from the second master and then decided to move to Australia. My first step was in in Sydney for six years. But I was not working in in a sushi restaurant, but mostly in western restaurants because thats where I could learn more about Australian tastes. What their taste buds are like. That's how I developed the menu and want to implement in my future menu as well.
CwaC: And do you, do you enjoy it now, being a chef?
PK: Too much. I enjoy it too much. It is hurting my soul.
CwaC: What do you mean?
PK: Imagine yourself going to club five days a week.
CP: He is really passionate. Really into hospitality.
CwaC: And you're giving it your everything.
PK: Every day.
CP: Also I want to be in the kitchen and cook, but he loves the open kitchen.
PK: I like that kind of kitchen.
CP:I can't really communicate with customers face to face. That's a big thing for me. But for him its completely different. He loves talking, he loves introducing people directly to his food and all that.
PK: So I give it all, every day, every day. I release all my energy every day.
CwaC: Are you here all the time?
PK: Yes. Most of the time.
CwaC: You're not open today, but you're here and doing the prep. How many nights is it open?
PK: Five. Tuesday to Saturday. Imagine DJing or going to a club five days.
CwaC: Do you have a break on Sunday?
PK: Yes. A day off.
CwaC: That's good. What do you eat when you're not here? Do you cook at home?
PK: Not much. I don't really cook at home. I just want to get comfort food.
CwaC:What is comfort food for you?
PK: Malaysian cuisine and some Chinese cuisine: rice, vegetables, meat, mostly meat. Mostly the kind of comfort food we have soup as well. Pho is an every Sunday routine that I always go to, to heal my soul. Because I'm drinking with customers as well. That's the part that my regulars like to come back.
CP: It makes him a bit different. Because when we first thought about starting Ronin, I said, you've been doing Western for a while and I know that your true passion is sushi, Japanese, the hospitality and the culture and everything. Why don't we try? So we did the pop up just two or three days and then it was Covid. So he lost his job. We did the pop up just to survive. And we really didn't expect it to go this well. We really felt lucky. We opened a popup, not really a restaurant, but while lot of the same industry people are closing down. So we feel really grateful that it worked out. We talked about our experiences of us going to other omakase even in Japan and we realised that it's always so serious. It's always suit and tie. I love it. I respect the culture, but also for a lot of people, they don't really know how to present themselves. Do I need to be careful of other stuff? Do I not be too loud? I think it's a little bit stressful for customers sometimes. You need to worry about a lot of stuff while eating food and it's not really a good experience for us. We are easy-going and all that. So that's why he really wanted to create a space that guarantees good food, but then the service could be a bit different than the traditional way. We started off in Prahran, in just a backyard or courtyard of a restaurant. That's why we were like, oh, if you do that serious kind of style, it won't fit. I said, why don't we try being more chill. And we started off really affordable. We just wanted to earn a little bit to survive and pay bills. And at that time, no one knows who he is. He came from Sydney. The network is small, but Sydney and Melbourne are really different. He got famous and then we started to go to other to talk to other people. They all wondered where he had been before? All of a sudden someone popped up in Melbourne and he's actually really experienced. So they wanted to know where this guy came from?
PK: Also, it's a good thing for me that I can influence new chefs. You don't need to work in a good restaurant in order to get to get your name out.
CP: That's also one of the things that we are pretty proud of.
CwaC: What do you mean?
CP: We feel like nowadays it's almost like if you start off like us, we don't have good backgrounds. I've worked in a few not bad restaurants in Melbourne, but we are not from those hatted places so its actually really hard for us to sell our brand.
CwaC: So then it's about your personalities as well. You are creating somewhere where people want to come because of you as much as anything. You go viral because of that, which is great.
CP: We definitely went through a lot. We have no connections. We don't know anyone.
PK: The first three months was hard. I still remember the first two, three months, our bookings were low. She would say, oh my God, are we able to open tomorrow?
C: Some days we only had six seats a session, so that was only 12 a day. We were begging people to come.
If you want to ask me what is a good chef or a great chef, at the end of the day, treat your customer like your loved one. That’s it. That’s all I can say. ~ Patrick Kwong, Ronin Omakase
CwaC: When did you open?
C: This August will be two years already.
CwaC: Someone just asked me this question the other day because I speak to lots of chefs and they said, what did I think is the difference between a good chef and a great chef? What do you think?
PK: Personally, that's nothing. I mean, good and great. It depends on people. You could define someone as a good or great husband. Sometimes he might be not in a good mood. Sometimes he might be good. To me love, because to me love is about food as well. It applies to food. To me nothing is perfect. Theres always up and downhill.
CP: I think for me it's more about whether you treat it as a job or you actually love it. Like for us, I don't get tired, even though he says, I'm burning my soul, stop. But when service starts, he just can't stop. It's the same with me. I feel comfortable. I love coming into the kitchen. I think it's more about the passion. Because there are a lot of good chefs out there. They don't really actually enjoy being a chef, but they are. And I think people can really tell the difference. I've been to restaurants where they have good food, but you just don't feel that extra care. I do feel like people can feel that if you treat your food well and you're like really passionate about it.
CwaC: I think that's a good answer. I spoke Tommaso at Park Street Pasta & Wine in South Melbourne yesterday and he was saying when he learned to be a chef, that the chef said to him, if you're looking at the clock, you are not in the right job. The same can be said for any, for any job. If you're willing the time to be over, then it's probably not the best place to be, is it? Or you need to change your attitude.
PK: Well, to me right now, this generation is a bit different. It's all about house finances. Sometimes it's really hard to balance, because time is money. And especially for all those apprentices, the people who want money have financial problems as well. So it's pretty hard to balance it out. If you want to ask me what is a good chef or a great chef, at the end of the day, treat your customer like your loved one. That's it. That's all I can say.
CP: Like friends and family. I do think the reason why I'm saying that is really because I just feel so lucky. We have a lot of like good returning customers and they all just treat us like friends. They'll go on holiday and they come back, bring us gifts. They have so much love for us. That's why I believe if you really treat people true hearted, they will feel it. Like with him he always jokes about like, oh, I don't want to drink alcohol, I prefer milk tea. And then mostly every Monday there'll be customers coming to see him and they'll bring him tea. They know he preps and we don't open on Mondays, but they still come and see him and chat to him and all that. A lot of people have become friends with us.
CwaC: Well that must be the answer then. Because a lot of places are closing down, aren't they? And some and places that have been around for a long time.
CP: We were just talking about Izakaya Den. It's so sad. I've always been in Melbourne and I've seen them since I came here, more than 10 years.
PK: I got used to this in Sydney. Sydney is just rotating every year. It's very fast. One shop closes and then someone takes over. Numerous times. At the end of the day, I just want enough to pay my bills and enough to pay the staff. Comfortable is comfortable. Nothing can get more than that. As long we have a party around still happy.
CP: As long as we can get through it. We can clearly see the time now is not really good, but we still get booked out.
CwaC: And you're having a good time. That's great.
PK: Yes, we are very lucky. Theres nothing more I can say. Love to all my customers. They are really the nicest people ever.
Ronin Omakase, 445 Little Collins Street, Melbourne