What an absolute pleasure to speak to Steven Nelson at The Recreation Bistro and Bottleshop. I mean, anyone who describes their zucchini as gorgeous and affectionately describes the way they are left to run free in a field as they grow has to be a good person by definition. Certainly a thoughtful person, and the way Steve described his career and the things he has learned along the way is certainly thoughtful; from his early days in Canberra to working in one of Gordon Ramsays venues in London, to the restaurant he worked at in Edinburgh and the incredible produce he worked with there, to his 15 years working in Melbourne in top restaurants. If you are familiar with some of my other conversations, you will know that I often bring up the Spanish book, Like Water for Chocolate, and the idea that when a chef cooks, their emotions go into the food and the people who eat it can taste those. This was one of those occasions where when I ate the stuffed zucchini flower and the duck pithivier with its divine darkened red wine jus, I could taste Steven's experience, his love for the produce and his environment and his calm, appreciative approach. If you dont believe me, you just need to get down to The Recreation and try it for yourself. Let me know how you get on. I know I'm right. And the other great thing about The Recreation is that they are now open on Monday nights, so that's seven nights of goodness and seven nights where I am bound to be right. You can listen to the podcast here.
Hi, how are you, Steven?
Good, thanks. Thanks for coming.
This is a lovely building. It's a heritage building, isn't it?
Yes it is. From 1866, but it was constructed as a pub. It had been a hotel for its whole life until 2011. And developers took it over and put some fancy townhouses above us. I think they had to keep a bit of commercial space on the bottom, so that was good.
How long have you been here?
We've been here for six years now.
Ok, so you weathered the Covid storms?
We did. To be honest, we were in a pretty good spot. I mean, as good as you could be for something like that. Being a neighbourhood venue, having a strong customer base and good connection with our local community, it really helped us through those challenges and gave us a pathway to do special takeaway packs and la carte service as takeaways. It was really annoying, but it was great to get that support and to grow our customer base, weirdly. We were introduced to some new people in the community that we didn't know. It was pretty positive in that respect.
That's good. Im interested in how your team is made up. You and Joe (Durrant) know each other and then Joe and Mark (Protheroe) knew each other and you all came together. Is that right?
Correct. Yes, Joe and I worked together in Scotland at the Atrium Restaurant and we met through a mutual friend, Luke Skidmore. He runs and operates Tipo, Osteria and, the new one, Figlia, and he was working there with us as well. He was Melbourne based, before he came over to Edinburgh. We all connected there. I came back from overseas and did what any chef does, you either go to Melbourne or Sydney and I chose Melbourne.
Did you grow up here?
No, I'm from Canberra originally. Basically, Shannon Bennett was at the top of the list for everyone coming back at that time. Then Joe met Mark working at Grossi and we formed coalition.
Great and you have different strings you play in your three stringed instrument. What do each of you bring and is that how you planned it when you came together?
We planned it as best we could, but you never really know how it's going to work or whos going to do what. But yes, essentially it gave us great confidence knowing that Mark is a well-regarded sommelier. Joe has great restaurant service and customer service knowledge and me as a chef and in the kitchen. I think it creates a great trio there and it makes sense going into your restaurant business, having all bases covered with owners. It sets you up for a good chance at success.
Absolutely. Was it easy to decide on the concept?
The concept was formed partly due to the building and the venue. We found we didn't have a really rigid thing that we definitely wanted to do. I think Melbourne in 2016 was looking for this kind of venue. So it was a tale of its time in a way. It was about connecting with the community, seeing what they're after and providing that classic kind of neighbourhood local restaurant, utilizing our backgrounds as well.
And all your backgrounds are fine dining, is that right?
Essentially. Using some of that technique, but we wanted that in the foreground, and then just deliver a really casual, relaxed atmosphere in the dining room and on the menu as well. Thats what we set out to do. And as venues do, it has evolved into what it needs to be as well. It's got its own thing that it's doing and with the customers and what the venue attracts, it's interesting to see it travel along.
I was speaking to someone the other day who has just opened a place in Abbotsford and he has other places Clifton Hill. He said exactly that, that you can have your idea of what it's going to be and he thought people would come for the booze, and actually everyone's coming for the food. So the people will dictatehow it goes. You just have to listen, don't you?
Absolutely. Listen and not be too egotistical and stuck in what you're doing. From a cooking perspective, you want your customers to feel happy and that they're getting what they pay for and what they want. Thats the whole goal of each day
Is that how Monday nights came about as well? Was there a realization that hospo people need somewhere to go as well on their days off?
Absolutely. Were really excited to be able to offer Monday nights. They came online at the end of February. Its a great opportunity to engage our wonderful industry, the hospitality sector, and also the local community. We found there's not a lot of offerings available on Monday. For those birthdays that happen over the weekend or things like that. You know, you need to catch up on the early week dinner. It's great to be able to swing the doors open and offer that and with the strong team that we have, we're, we're pretty confident that its going to go well.
I reckon too, sometimes you just need something to get you through Monday. Don't you think? I'll get through this and then I'll go out.
I completely agree with that.
I was reading about the signature swordfish schnitzel, which is quite a tongue twister to say. How did that come about? I've never heard of it before.
Well, the sous chef Victoria actually. She really wanted crumbed fish on the menu. We're all really keen on that idea, but your traditional whiting or those flat fish that you crumb and pan fry, we were toying around with some ideas and she threw up the swordfish idea, which is a great fish to use, being quite sustainably, it must say certified sustainable, which is really important. It creates a really beautiful steak, and to crumb it and pan fry it, it stays quite juicy. It was a really good call. It's been a bit of fun. That one.
Can we just go back to the start? You've obviously been a chef for a while. Did you always know you wanted to be a chef?
Yes, I did. It hit me in school doing the cookery classes in high school, it really engaged my creativity and interest in that. Then through fortune, I got a job as a kitchen hand and I really enjoyed the vibe of the kitchen; what was being produced, the personalities, the excitement. It got me quite interested. I progressed with an apprenticeship and here we are today.
What made you go to Edinburgh? Were you somewhere else first, or did you go straight there?
London was the first stop, purely for the fact that it's one of the great dining cities of the world and everyone speaks English, which is helpful. Coming from Canberra and going to London was a big step.
So, you didn't come here first? You went straight from Canberra?
Straight from Canberra to London. It really opened my eyes to what the industry is capable of and how people see it as a real career and an important one. Gordon Ramsey was my focus, and I went to one of his restaurants and got a job at the Boxwood Cafe, which sadly no longer exists, but it was a really interesting place to work at that time. It was one of the first fine dining kitchens creating casual food.
Right and so that informed your career?
It really did, because it was delivering this, this super high-quality kind of bistro offering which I'd never seen or experienced. Full flavour dishes, but, quite a casual atmosphere and well-priced. Even we could go there on our day off? Yeah. It encompassed what I wanted to do in the future.
What position did you have there?
I started as a commis chef? I was qualified, but it doesn't mean much when you walk in the door in London. Commis chef is basically the bottom tier, and I just put my head down and my, my bum up and worked away at that. I worked quite hard and just worked through the ranks. I worked my way up to junior sous chef, but the pressure and the, the life experience was getting to me a little bit. I just wanted to see a bit more of the country, which drew me to Edinburgh.
Was Gordon Ramsey around? Did you see him?
Not on a day-to-day basis in Boxwood Cafe cafe. He would come in maybe once a month, once every two months to do a paid function or have a look at the kitchen. Marcus Wareing had the restaurant next door to us as well, so there was a bit of a Gordon Ramsey cohort of chefs. He'd come there mainly socializing.
Was it a shouty kitchen?
It definitely had tones of what you'd expect from his TV shows. The culture in his organization was fairly abrupt. They expected a lot from you and, not to criticize, but they weren't giving you the support to actually needed to achieve that. They were just expecting you to kind of do it out of the blue, which again, I've learned from all these things and I think the expectation is great to get the best out of people and really drive them, but also to have a support network to help them and show them where they need to go, what they need to do really thoroughly. But the kitchen culture there was something I'd never experienced beforehand, so it was, it was exciting really.
But then you needed a change. So you went to Edinburgh. What was the food like there? I feel like Scotland has so many beautiful, natural, resources and products like Tasmania.
It was a real eye opener to work with the produce that we were getting delivered into the restaurant in Edinburgh at the atrium. The guy who shot the venison was bringing it in the next day, the asparagus was picked overnight and delivered to the restaurant the next morning, from 20 minutes up the road. I think geographically Edinburgh is a really great spot for produce. You've got the, the North Sea, you know, to the East, beautiful Highlands up in the park and, and great farming land just all around Edinburgh. The heritage of everything, the age, I think the asparagus farm have been doing it for 120 years or something.
That's crazy. Isn't it so good? It's very European, isn't it? That whole handing on to the next person and so on, and it's in the family.
They see it as a great career and the relationships you make with the suppliers there as well are pretty special.
Was The Atrium a big place? It sounds big.
It does sound big. It was in a big building. But the restaurant itself sat 50 people. It was, it was fairly manageable. We also had upstairs, which was called Blue, a more casual eatery. Its good to see the two businesses operating side by side. It was a great restaurant to work at.
I think at this point of my cooking career, inspiration really comes from experience. The seasonality, going to the farms, having a look over the years, I’ve seen how they grow and what’s happening. Cooking in Melbourne for the last 15 years, I’ve really engaged with the seasons. It’s hard to articulate. It’s the place that we in here; that’s the inspiration in itself. It’s a great spot.~ Steven Nelson, The Recreation
I read that you really like French technique and you spent some time with Jacques Reymond as well. What is it about French technique that appeals to you?
It appeals to me because the technical ability of French cooking as a tradesperson is a skillset that you can learn and show. It takes a lot of practice and time, which I think is reflective of the history of it and what it means and how to achieve it. I think as a tradesperson, it's probably the pinnacle for me. Obviously all cuisines are different and they have their different structures and things, but the influence of French cuisine worldwide over most kitchens and brigades is really obvious. Theyve set the restaurant as we know it in the western world. I really enjoy it.
As a diner, would I be aware of those techniques in your menu here?
I think so. If you were familiar with French food, you would definitely see some strong influences on the menu. Mainly I think one of the, the great avenues for that technique is sauces. All our sauces are made in that really traditional technique driven kind of way. Its a great base to have. Then using really fresh local things combined with that old knowledge and technique, it delivers a, a tasty plate of food.
So have you got an autumn menu on now?
This year's been a little bit funny. We work a lot with local farms and they drive what we're putting on the menu and with this late drawn out summer – tomatoes are still in full swing. We are still doing late summer produce at the moment. We are holding out for the autumn produce to start growing. Pumpkins are going come, pine mushrooms, you know, all those. I love autumn cooking. It's probably one of my favourites.
It's cosy, isn't it, too, without being too, austere.
[Food is brought out]
This is our stuffed zucchini flower. They're gorgeous. They're grown organically in a field out in Keilor from Days Walk. We've stuffed it with a house made ricotta, some herbs, that classic kind of thing, and served on a pea puree.
Thank you. It's big too. That's like a little drumstick, isn't it?
These field grown ones are really massive, they're gorgeous. They are left to run free.
Free range zucchini.
Exactly. I feel happy for the plants. They're not controlled in a hydroponic environment.
And what's this little one?
That's our duck pithivier.
Ah, I love duck.
It rolls in and out of our menu. It's a staple at our other venue, the Paradise Valley Hotel. It's just your classic kind of dark mushroom filling, encased in puff pastry with a beautiful, darkened red wine sauce.
Beautiful. I really loved reading too, about how you and your head chef and sous chef are a really strong team, and I just love the idea of that. I have this idea that when teams are strong and work well together and there's no shouting and so on, that the food is obviously flavoured with that goodness.
I totally agree. It really is. To have a collaborative, really comfortable approach to our food here at the Rec, it does show everyone on the plates and also shows the development of all our palates and is the result of sharing new ideas. It makes us feel quite good. You get a lot of joy from that, that group experience, I think rather than just dictating everything. It's a comfortable atmosphere.
People want to come to work and the flow on is amazing. It's so good.
I think it's really important. To have those experiences overseas was fantastic, but, to have that holistic kind of thing in a restaurant; the community, the happy kitchen, the great service team, it's hard to build together, but it is great to have achieved it.
It sounds like you all contribute, and in terms of thinking about what inspires you, it sounds as though they come up with ideas and you come up with ideas and you've obviously got your repertoire from cooking over the years and so on. What other inspiration do you use? Is it still cookbooks? We all like cookbooks, but do we actually open them?
I do love cookbooks, as a chef they're great to read, and I find them really entertaining. I love the Food Channel. I think at this point of my cooking career, inspiration really comes from experience. The seasonality, going to the farms, having a look over the years, I've seen how they grow and what's happening. Cooking in Melbourne for the last 15 years, I've really engaged with the seasons. It's hard to articulate. It's the place that we in here; that's the inspiration in itself. It's a great spot.
And just to finish, so that I can eat your food, what would your advice be to young people who are thinking of becoming a chef?
First of all, do it because it's a great job. But also really, really know why you're doing it, I think is important. And do it with the right people. Learn as much as you can in good environments. And that all translates later on when you are moving up the ranks and doing it yourself. You can really send those messages. So, think about what you're doing; really take time and think about the day to day.
The Recreation Bistro And Bottleshop, 162-170 Queens Parade, North Fitzroy