Jake Furst

This is my third historic pub visit in a row. This is 150 years old, isn't it?

Yes, it is. We did all these renovations and it gave us a good opportunity to do something really nice over the other side so we can cater for your casual guys, pub food, and then do something really nice over here. We had really strong volume for steaks and high-quality meat. So we put a Josper grill in, the dry ager went in and offered a premium space to eat it all. We redid the function room as well. There was accommodation up there, really poky little rooms and now it is a private room with exposed brick and so on.

If all these spaces were filled, how many people could be here?

A lot!

Do you have a big team in the kitchen?

Between both, probably 16.

That's a lot and this is probably a local's place, but also a destination place, with Cinder.

That's what we're trying to do with this side. There's no point doing the same menu both sides out of two kitchens, so we took the opportunity to do something a little bit nicer. A lot of people don't want to go into the city anymore. They want to stay local. There's some really nice restaurants up Northcote. But there's here and maybe The Rec. It's beautiful down there.

I was there on Wednesday. I am loving all these old pubs.

It just had so much potential. What we struggle with, is the kitchen, the kitchen is a bit of a Lego kitchen now. We just keep building on to it.

It feel so classy in here as well.

We were pretty lucky with everything. It's starting to really take off, which is good. We're about a year in. It has slowed down a little as interest rates and so on went up, then you get all the public holidays and people go away. We actually closed down in January because we're part of the group that has the Continental Hotel in Sorrento. We have a joint partnership with Scott Pickett, he was actually my head chef and there is a friendship there as well.

I love Scott.

We sent everyone down there to work because it was wild down there. This group has here here, Sorrento, The Plough in Brisbane, The Osborne. We just bought the Grand View in Cleveland, so there will be a big multimillion dollar redo there and it will be a similar sort of setup up to here. We'll have a more premium offer upstairs. Its Queensland's oldest licensed pub. It is beautiful. It has verandahs all the way around upstairs. is all the way around and upstairs, then Townsville and the Gold Coast with a couple more on the go.

It must be good being part of a group.

We were quite lucky because we got this in December, 2019, three months and we got shut down. We were lucky because we had the ones in Queensland to keep everyone rolling, keep everyone getting paid and that paid for the redo, because it didn't look anything like this. There was mismatched furniture, sticky floors. The floors were falling apart. It was pretty bad. We thought we might as well give it a crack and it will either pay off or it won't. And it did, so we've been really lucky with that. Having the power of the group and the groups buying power and everything else that opens up is amazing.

Everything is so beautiful. And your dry ager is gorgeous. I suppose you had worked over fire before, but that's quite a particular way of cooking, isn't it?

I'd done bits and pieces. We keep it pretty simple. We use the best stuff we can and just do it properly. With the steak following we had here, we upgraded the brands. We are in partnership with Flinders and Co. We use a lot of Robbins Island beef, Cape Grim, Wanderer. The only other thing we could do is put the Josper grill in so we could cook over fire, like a steak oven, over coals. It doesn't get much better than that. That was a mission because we had to pass through the walls, take new flus up. It's not just about putting it in. There are certain regulations you have to follow. It was a bit of a nightmare. But the difference is amazing. Weve actually got another restaurant going in on the corner of Langridge and Cambridge Street in Collingwood with Josper Grills as well. But we are not going down the steak road, we'll be doing more vegetables and fish on it.

Do you use wood or charcoal for the Josper?

A little bit of both, we mix it through. We use some lump charcoal and some processed bricks for consistency. When we get 80 covers, 80 steaks, you need the consistency. You don't need to be reloading it all the time. And there is a big lump of red gum on the side to add a bit of flavour. It just smokes on the side so you get that smoky flavour and gives a perfect char on the steak.

Speaking of 80, I was just reading about the special club you have here. Can you tell me about that?

We started a Cuts Club.

Is it limited to 80?

I've only got 80 knives. We got this guy MD Knives to make them out in the Dandenongs.

Oh I spoke to him for Broadsheet. He's so great.

Unreal. Craig would only let me buy 80 because they're $350 a piece. They are all numbered and hang on a presentation board we got from a Masonic Lodge and it dates back to 1886. You come in, you always have your knife on the table when you come in. It gives you priority access to the dry ager. You get a birthday steak as well on your birthday. But the key thing was just opening up certain times for guests. We are currently opening Saturday dinner Friday, Saturday lunch, but if you are part the club and you want to come in on a Monday lunch or a Tuesday lunch, we'll open it up. And then we do events. We've got one coming up with Penfold soon.

I read about that. You'll be pouring incredible wine.

Weve got a couple of magnums of Grange, so that'll come through as a special taster. It's about getting some more people through and providing experiences for people as well. The knives are stunning.

Have you been to his studio?

It's so beautiful, but it is so small and hidden away and he is making all those incredible knives. When you open up the presentation board in front of guests, people love it. There's nothing better than having a beautiful steak knife that cuts through everything. That's our own design as well. He won't make that design for anyone else.

Are the handles all different wood?

Eight different types of Australian timber. We have been quite lucky with that and we have $35,000 worth of steak knife sitting on the wall. It's a bit daunting but it's all about the experience.

I love that you have been out to the studio. You seem to be very collaborative. I was reading about some of the other things that are going on here. Youre be working with Nick from Audrey's.

I am super excited. I met Nick, because we are obviously part of the group, and when I went down to help the Sorrento team open last Easter. I met him through there and I've been pretty hands on right up till December until then our new baby came in January. The relationship with Nick ties back to Scott. I've known Scott for 15 years. I did my second and third year apprenticeship with him at The Point. I think it is good to come back around. I think Scott is going to ty and make an appearance as well. I've seen a lot of the stuff that Nick does and it's beautiful. He won that award last year as well.

I haven't spoken to him yet for conversation with a chef, but I have spoken to him for the Broadsheet cookbook, Home, and he contributed a recipe.

He's so knowledgeable as well for such a young guy.

And you have been a chef for 15 years?

A little bit longer. I was pretty much born into it. My parents had a catering business back in Albury Wodonga. I've been working since I was four or five, washing dishes all the way through and it got to highschool, and I decided if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it properly. So I shipped down here when I was 17 and started my apprenticeship at Toofeys in Carlton when it was a seafood restaurant there. I did two years there then went with Scott,and worked a couple of years there, which felt like 10. But then moved around Melbourne a bit at the French Brasserie working with Gabriel Martin as well. I did a couple of his restaurants, bouncing around and got into contact with Craig and the guys that own this group. My brother worked with him in Albury and I jumped into the pub game. I'm the group executive chef for the whole group. But it's just about learning the numbers and learning how the business works and how to make a living out of it as well. There's no point doing all this food if you send everyone broke.

No, that's right. And that's the balance isn't it, once you get up into those leadership roles, even head chef and then obviously youre executive as well, you have to have to have that balance of still thinking about the food, but obviously the numbers as well.

Yes, the discipline of the margins and the labour control and everything else. I look after it's close to 330 chefs now from Sorrento to Townsville. Its pretty full on. You need structure and organisation.

Does it take away some of the joy of cooking?

I'm pretty hands on here. I'm really lucky to have this little pocket. I'll be in here tonight. Sometimes I do the pass, sometimes I'll run the food, but we've got a really strong team here now with Sonny, the head chef. It has been a lot of work building it up, but now it's about letting go as well. There's no point having places and looking after all these people and all these restaurants if they don't work without me there. It's good to have this one because I can get in there, we can buy the beef that we want. We're really lucky that the pub runs really well so we can buy what we want. We just bought some A5 wagyu the other day, so we'll slice that up tonight for some guests. And, as I said, having access to the top quality dry aged stuff. It's really good to have this little outlet to forget about the numbers, forget about the people for a bit and create some new dishes. We are starting to filter some of the dishes into the pub side as well. We are making a nice salad out of the beef cheek and taking that fine dining training into the pub side and really elevating it through there. Especially in Queensland, I don't want it sound rude, but they're about 10 years behind us. But we are making some simple dishes out of duck legs, and the kingfish salad and they're really taking off up there, which is good for the business and good for the chefs up there as well. It means they are getting away from just frying squid and cooking parmas.

Is that, is that a public thing as well though? I'm not saying anything about the Queensland public either, but have tastes changed over the years as well?

Definitely. It used to be all about getting your plate, and as long as it was full and big, that's a good meal. But now they're looking into quality and fresher items as well.

Do you have to go around all these places?

Yes. I haven't been since November. I've got a really good solid Queensland exec chef up there looking after it because the flights are through the roof now and accommodation is through the roof. Plus I have two little kids at home who need me as well. Probably in another month I'll start tripping up there again. Ill go once or twice a month. Ash has got it held down quite well. We have really strong head chefs and we've put a lot into each team to make them feel part of it, make it feel that they're on, because at the end of the day they have to do a job and they should be held accountable for it. I know it brings out the best in them as well. Rather than going up there and doing stuff, I'll went up to Townsville, and took them out jet-skiing. It is all about making them feel like part of the family. So the role of the exec chef for me is changed a little bit. I am hands on here and creating menus and filtering them up, but when I go there, it's making sure everyone's good; checking in on the team and making sure they're doing what they need to do.

Do they take care of their own menus?

We have a brand bible for each area because each area is quite different. The Osborne's in Fortitude Valley, so there are a lot of business lunches and it needs to be super quick. The Plough is right on Southbank in Brisbane, and they get really busy really quickly. Its fast food, done really well. We have a master menu now with about 250 dishes and it gives them the opportunity to pick some, take some and do what they want to do with them as well. It's just about keeping it all on the right track. When we take over a place, everyone decides in the room what we want it to be and where we want it to shift to. We give them that first menu and the head chefs usually come down here and work a week, see the standards and get them behind the whole deal. Then it's all theirs.

Obviously you have a repertoire of food that you've cooked over the years, but where else do you get your inspiration?

We are doing a really big push on just trying to pull the margins down because the food costs are going through the roof. We are diving in and taking dishes like beef cheek that you usually wouldn't have on a summer salad. Its beef cheek with a pomegranate tabouleh and we shred it through. We think of beef cheek as a heavy dish, but it's really light when you have it with everything else. I get inspiration from that and from suppliers as well. You can really putting the pressure back on them to work for us and offering specials, asking them what they have, what new fish is coming through, just to really open up the everyones minds. Here as well we get a lot of inspiration from the chefs. We get a lot of Nepalese and Indian guys. Sonny has made a really beautiful little curried toothfish dish, so adapting their their style and history of cooking into what we are doing is really good. We dont get taught that stuff at TAFE, or Toofeys or The Point. Making curries and using those flavours and working with spices, no one had ever showed me that. Getting that inspiration from these guys as well is really good.

I've been talking to people lately people are complaining about how expensive it is to eat out and how ridiculous the costs are I have been trying to have the conversation about produce costing so much now. We only have to go to supermarket ourselves and see how much things cost and with dining out, you have all your other costs on top of that. It seems as though people are still dining out in huge numbers, but do you think the concept of dining out is going to change?

I think we've seen it change, especially in the pubs, not that we are going to cook two hat dishes in the pub, but we are making the menu a little bit nicer and using fresh produce, brand names and charging a little less and perhaps where people were going to fine dining restaurants once a month, they are now coming to pubs. We're seeing a lot more people come in. We had a huge boom it just halfway through last year of people coming in we'd see it in the reviews; they can enjoy a pub meal once or twice a week. We run some really tight specials here, like a steak night. We use a nice Cape Grim steak all the way through, you can't even put up a Cape Grim steak for $22 bucks. We're getting a lot of people come through. We can do 200 to 300 people on the pub side on those Tuesday nights. They come in for those specials and for those cheap options as well.

I read Thi Les post about Bahn Mi and how everyone thinks it should be cheap food and that we should be able to get it for under $10. But the amount of ingredients and effort that goes into making one of those is so considerable. I think that's probably the case when you're doing good food with good product. Its interesting the public perception of things, isn't it?

We do get people coming through saying, you can't charge that for steak and not have chips on the side. What are you talking about? We make handcut chips and the effort that the guys put in. The boys do close to 400 covers a week just through this room and theres just the three of them. They are putting so much effort into confiting the tomatoes, cooking the chips. We focus on having really nice stuff and doing it properly and I don't think people see the other end of it. It'd be nice for them to come in and watch for a day or the whole week as well and see what goes into it and what you're paying for. Theres a lot of stuff that should go up that hasn't gone up yet, we haven't passed on all the costs that come through and we're getting smarter with secondary cuts. Even with whole fish, Sonny, instead of filleting it down, he takes the tail off first and that will go to a shared table, so you're not wasting that bit. We got a good shipment of kingfish collars as well, so we put that in a nice salad and you're still getting a really nice product, but it's a secondary cut.

You know what to do with it though. I often think about kitchens where you are using everything and really cutting back on waste. I wish that I had some of that knowledge as well. I probably could research and find out to be honest, but I am always so impressed by chefs and how you do manage to find a different way all the time. That must just be from working with food over the years, that you build up that knowledge and you have no fear of experimenting and trying, you know, what's going to work and what doesn't.

Definitely. I've been really lucky. When I was doing my apprenticeship, the owner operator, was the head chef, so he was pretty strict on everything. There was a lot of discipline in there and you didn't get in trouble for trying new things or trying a different way. I remember sometimes he used to make us make the staff meals out of the peel from field mushrooms, the skin off those. We would be peeling them and throwing it away and he would ask us what we were doing because you could cook that. He showed us how to make a nice risotto with them.

That's interesting.

I was really fortunate. A couple of guys opened my eyes up to trying new things and trying different ways and not being scared to fail. Obviously things turns out awful sometimes, but very rarely.

Do you have notebooks and things or is it just all in your head?

I've got notebooks, I've got cookbooks. I have near close to 800 cookbooks at home, much to my partner's disgust. They take up a lot of room. But I've got notebooks, pads, photos of recipes. We've got a big bible in the kitchen and that is being filled. Every new dish that we do gets entered there, once it's refined. I remember all my head chefs saying, where's your notebook? Where's your notebook? Write this stuff down because you'll forget it. I thought I wouldnt forget but I regret not writing stuff down from the first years, that's for sure.

Do you think about food 24/7? But I know that it's shared with thinking about babies. Your Instagram account mentions 'steak and babies.'

Exactly. Even at home I get put to work. I cook dinner for everyone at home. Usually I'll be up at five with Max. We have breakfast, watch a couple of cartoons. I'm usually here by eight, nine o'clock, then I'll shoot home from four till six and Ill be straight in there cooking dinner and making stuff for Mel. Then depending what's happening at night, I'll be back here if I'm not back here, Ill be back on the computer. Things are always changing price, always going up. We have to be pretty onto it and pretty reactive when something jumps like chicken, or we don't get the stock. We run a program that costs everything out stock taking all that weekly as well, so that's all kept up to date. But when chicken goes through the roof or steak or we can't get a product, can't get chips, it's panic station. You have to be prepared for that. We got a lot of guys coming through that want special menus and special beef and you're always looking for new stuff, so new suppliers as well.

You obviously love it.

Yes. With all the steak and the fish I did early on, we would always be looking for new things and tweaking and changing and making something look like something it's not and we are pulling it back now and cooking with the best stuff we can, doing it properly and teaching the guys as well. Sonny's been here for five years now, now he's running this whole joint himself. He started as a sponsorship chef and he's come through the ranks and I can step away. It's incredible.

It sounds to me as though you set up a really good atmosphere in the kitchen and you respect your chefs and they respect you.

We come in every morning and say hello. Everyone takes a turn to make chai tea because all the Nepalese guys make a beautiful chai. We go through and ask who's making tea today? Its always friendly in there. Weve had a couple of bad eggs through and they've come through in the worst times when it's really busy. We sat down and spoke about it and there's no point carrying this bad egg around if it's going to affect the other 15 guys. You have to make the tough calls and think about what's right for the team as well, even though you might have to step up and do an extra day or extra couple hours. Without the team, customers won't be happy and there'll be no money in the bank. But if the team's happy, they'll look after our customers. We have a really good solid team in there now and we went over to Dubai in July and we've sponsored 28 chefs to come back as well. Mainly for the Continental and maybe Townsville as well. It's just so hard to get people in those areas. If you live in Sorrento, you don't need to work and if you want to work in Sorrento, you can't afford to live there, so it's really hard.

Do you reckon there are fewer Australian or local people who want to become chefs?

The apprenticeship stuff has really dried up a lot. I don't know if people have been burnt out or maybe there's not a round of good teachers there anymore. We take everyone pretty seriously here and everyone if you're high level, low level, everyone is at the same point and they work their way through and earn the respect of everyone else. But it's really hard to get someone that's keen, passionate, and willing to do the work because there are a lot of easier jobs out there. Especially in the last couple years it's been pretty tough.

What is your advice, then, to people who are thinking about becoming a chef?

Make sure you love it. It takes a special sort of person to sacrifice what you have to get where you want to be. It's a beautiful job to do, especially here when you can look out from theopen kitchens and people come up to the pass to say their meal was beautiful. Those little things help and we get a lot of people coming to the kitchen to shake the chef's hand and say, thats the best they've ever had. There's nothing better than that, creating that emotion for the people that come in and celebrating their special occasions. It's incredible. So, make sure you love it and give it a red hot crack because it can give you a lot, it opens lots of doors and you meet a lot of people.

Cinder, 492 Queens Parade, Fitzroy North