My friend Morgan is an absolute star. He does a lot. So much. An absolute ideas man and entrepreneur, and if you follow him on the socials, which you absolutely should, it is one great idea after the next. Morgan was the co-producer for many years on the wildly successful New Zealand childrens program, What Now, and also had a principal role in what I think is one of the best zombie movies to come out of Christchurch, Last of the Living. He is currently studying nursing, as well as pushing a mens underwear range, hosting drive-in movies with a huge inflatable screen, distilling gin and making kimchi. When I lived in Christchurch in the pre-Conversation with a chef days, I used to have a show on a local radio station called Volcano FM. I interviewed people who were passionate about what they did. I loved it. There is something so thrilling about talking to people who love what they do and know all about it. (Incidentally, you can listen to some of these chats on big noise from a lytteltown. They are even more lo-fi than Conversation with a chef, but some excellent content there). I have been angling to talk to Morgan for ages and now that he has branched into food, I had my chance. You can also listen here.
Hi Morgan. Thanks for coming over today to chat about kimchi. What's your company called?
It's called Chikim's Kimchi. It's just basically the word kimchi, cut in half and then those two syllables are put around the other way.
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I wanted to talk to you because I've known you for, how long do you reckon? Maybe 11 years.
Easy. Yeah, yeah, definitely since the earthquake.
And over the time that I've known you, I'm always amazed at how many incredible ideas you come up with. You're so entrepreneurial and it worries me sometimes that you maybe don't sleep. Do you sleep?
I sleep fine. Yeah, it's all smoke and mirrors. I get a lot of downtime, you know, it just looks like I'm busier.
Because last night you were doing Ivan's Drive-in, which is a massive inflatable screen. For drive-in movies.
Yeah, it was at Bottle Lake Forest Park in a space by the Rangers' compound there. It went really well. We had some good weather, but it takes ages to get dark. It's funny because drive-in movies, well, where I'm trying to do it, in the summer it's warm, which is great, but it gets dark so late so, you know, it wasn't dark enough until at least half past nine last night and people are, you know, this is a late showing. In winter it's freezing, but it gets dark early so it's probably going to be a spring autumn thing I reckon.
How many people did you get last night?
About 12 or 13 cars, but it was a trial, so it wasn't a big thing. I literally needed three or four and I would've been happy. I just wanted to test out a new piece of equipment to make sure the audio was sounding good for all different types of cars and whatnot. But it worked really well.
And that's the thing, I watch you on social media with all your gadgets and different things and I think everything that you enter into, you do it super well. You must research everything to get exactly the right thing.
Definitely. Some things more than others and then it's a bit of learn as you go with. For example Ivan's, the previous trial run had all the components, but the one thing that let me down was the FM transmitter. And so that was just something cheap that I bought hoping that it would work. Turns out it was rubbish and that's why the sound wasn't very good. So then I had to go and see an extremely clever friend of mine who's into all techy stuff and he helped me find this person who made these things from scratch for the frequency I was looking for in New Zealand.So that's what I was testing up mainly last night. I was just trying not to spend too much money. Because you know, these things don't make any money for quite some time, so you just have to figure it out and get that income yourself.
That's the thing, isn't it? Because as though some of the things you've done are not about money at all and are really community centred as well. So your quickie events are not really a money maker, are they? They are more about bringing people together.
Pretty much, yeah. That was one of the first ventures. That was sort of entry level. I mean I always try and spot a niche and I felt like, you can do fun runs and all that sort of stuff. And then you've got road cycling and mountain biking and all those kinds of activities. And then you've got triathlons but duathlons wasnt something that I saw a lot. So I saw that as an entry level event for people who are maybe thinking of doing something like multi-sport or a triathlon with short distances and just to experience that transition from going from run to bike to run. It can get quite jarring. I know from my experience after a mountain bike and run, I think it was, your spine feels like it's turning into jelly if it's a bumpy ride and then you have to run. But what happened is I found a lot of couples really got into it. So it was actually quite a nice thing and families were doing it. As you're saying, it became a more of a community thing.
And then, then theres Ndel Mens Packaging.
Yeah. It's going ahead.
Men's underwear. Well, some of those photos were quite community centred, a community service for women, or anyone who likes to look at men's packages.
That's right. Yeah. Hey, I figure equal rights. I see so many half naked woman online, so let's get some half naked men there too.
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Right. But also is it about them being really comfortable and they have art on them?
Originally that was about, well again, I thought there would be a niche market for that, but the whole idea behind Ndel was to market it to women to either get pink dollar or market it to women to buy for their male partners if they're hetero. So it would be almost be like a point of sale item. So, I sold it at sort of high-end giftware stores, or even high-end female clothing stores so a lady would buy something really expensive for herself and go, oh, I should get something for Mark to sweeten the deal cause this dress is a $1000. I'm generalizing here. And women talk. I was researching, and this is years ago, but I think 12,000 extra words a day is what I saw on some sort of TED Talk that women speak more each day than men. I thought if I could get them to talk for even a chunk of that about Ndel or my brand or whatever, then I think that's a pretty good marketing tool.
OK. So you've done all of these things. What made you branch into the food industry with kimchi?
Kimchi? Yeah. That is such a good question. And I wish I knew, because Kimchi had already been made, so it's not like, oh there's a market. I've never had anything to do with food production. So I do wonder what I am even doing sometimes. When did I even think about it? I think I just tried making some, because I saw a really cute little lady on YouTube making kimchi and she just had such a nice way about her. I thought it looked like a fun thing to make. And so I made it and then I thought, this is actually bloody tasty. I guess I just wanted to see if people would buy it. And then I sold a batch on Facebook Marketplace and it sold out within a couple of days. I thought that was pretty good. I got a great response from it. But as far as my desire to make kimchi, honestly, it was nothing that I'd set out to do, I wanted to try it and see if people bought it. And then I thought I'd carry on.
Obviously it's fermented. Does it always have to be made with cabbage? Is that what kimchi is?
Kimchi can be made with anything. Traditionally it's made with either Napa cabbage or Chinese cabbage or wombok. That is just something that has been used for a long time. But I've seen people kimchi cucumber. I want to do a batch with bok choy as well, just because it's so much more readily available than Chinese cabbage. I'm always scouting the Chinese cabbage and I see it and I get all excited and snap it up when I can. But you always see bok choy around and I reckon the white part hsas a similar crunchy texture. But you can kimchi anything really. Im using kimchi as the verb for fermenting, but I'm doing a disservice to the Korean culture, because I can't remember if kimchi is actually a word used to describe fermenting rather than what we think kimchi is, as in a product.
Right. How did you work out your recipe? Did you just find a recipe you liked, or did you tweak it?
Yeah, I tweaked it a little bit. Not much though, just because the first time I made it, it was so good. Then I guess I've just sort of increased volumes and then changed out a couple of little extra bits and bobs, but nothing crazy. I'm not very creative with food, so it's not like I went, Ooh, I'm gonna try this and add this. I just went, oh yeah, that was good, oh, I don't have any of that. I'll try this instead.
It is a really cool process chopping all the vegies and mixing it all up. No batch is exactly the same so I’m trying to get the common denominator correct. Then you stick it in the jars. I like the way it looks and I like holding the jars, they have a nice weight to them and the product itself is delicious and people love it. I look forward to being face to face with people and having the little tester bowls of kimchi so people can taste it and I can see what they think and hopefully they are happy. ~ Morgan Williams
How long does it take, from start to finish? What's the fermenting process?
Well, you can ferment it for as long as you want. It has maybe two or three days when it's going gangbusters, fermenting after you've mixed it all together and then it peters off. But for me because now because I want to sell it, I have to get it right. I come under something called the New Zealand National Program 2, which is set by the Ministry of Primary Industries and that is about food safety, food regulation. I have to get my pH level between 3.6 and 3.2 which I have to work on to get there a bit faster because sometimes it's taking a good couple of weeks to get there. The reason for the pH level being precise is that it kills all germs gives it a prolonged shelf life. So that's where I'm actually at the moment. The last batch that I did about a month ago, I've set my Best Before date at three months. So now I literally have to wait three months and then get it tested at a laboratory for E coli and something called AP. Okay. So it's quite frustrating cause I want to get it moving, but I actually have to wait three months and then once I've got that, then I get all signed off and I'm away. I'm still learning about the best packaging and whatnot.
Traditionally you'd buy your whole cabbage head and then you would smear the leaves with the mixture of chili flakes and garlic and ginger and stuff. And then you roll it up and shove it in a container to ferment. The first batch I did, people were like, oh, they're a bit big for a mouthful and I thought they could just cut them up.But anyway, I took that on board and found it actually does speed things up a little bit rather than doing each leaf individually and rolling it up. What I do now is just chop up the cabbage into sort of pretty big chunks and then I chuck it in with all the mixture mix it all up and then put it in the jars and that seems to work all right.
But when they ferment in the jars, you get quite a lot of fizz. If it's a warm day and they haven't been in the fridge for a while, it can be like shaking up a soda can. I don't want it to explode on people because it's pretty smelly stuff. I'm experimenting between jar fermenting and barrel fermenting. The last batch of barrel fermenting I did, I left in there too long and the cabbage lost its integrity. It got a bit slushy, and soft and you still want it to be a bit crunchy when you're biting into it. I needed to have done that for a few days and then got it into the jars. But I that's the stuff I blitzed andmade into a pizza sauce. It's so good. It was a really good mistake.
And that pizza oven you were putting it onto on Instagram, is that yours?
That's my brother-in-law's and sister's. It was amazing as a pizza sauce. It looks like it's tomato but there's no tomato and it's just all the chili and good stuff.
Does it need to ferment in a particular temperature or does it not matter?
I just leave mine at room temperature.
And do you need lots of space?
Eventually I will. I make it at one of those shared kitchen spaces called Tuck in Christchurch. There are lots of commercial grade kitchens that you can hire out by the hour. But a mate of mine who runs a company called Little Bone Broth Company and who is a really awesome guy, he's so welcoming and friendly. He lets me just take a space up at the end of his kitchen and I can just bang them out in a day kind of thing.
Obviously for you it's worth persevering through the hurdles?
I want it to take it to the Farmer's Market and do a stall there. I want to do a hundred jars a week. It doesn't sound like a big goal, but I just want to do a hundred jars a week over a season, for example, like a summer season. So it might not be until next year for all I know. But Riccarton Bush Market is year round.
It's so good there. I was there yesterday.
You were. I saw your photo.
And everything smells so delicious and there is such a great atmosphere down there. What are the health benefits of eating kimchi?
Well, because it's a fermented product, it's good on your gut. I need to study up more about all that kind of carry on to answer your question properly. But, you know, it's a well-known fact that fermented foods it's are good on your stomach and your gut health with probiotics and prebiotics and all that sort of carry on. And it tastes great.
Apart from the pizza sauce, I see you have a few interesting ways you are using it. What do you like to do with kimchi?
It's an interesting question because a lot of people wonder how to use it. The way I like to use it, one of my favourite meals at the moment, and it's nothing ground-breaking, but basically I just use white rice and then I'll get asparagus and broccoli and then just either saut or steam it or whatever and then I plonk that on the rice. And then there's this tonkatsu sauce that has a little bulldog on the front of it and it's sort of fruit vegetable sauce that is quite yummy. Anyway, I drizzle that on top. And then I get a steak and then cut that into slivers and chuck that on top. And then I just dump a whole bunch of kimchi on that. That's so good. It's really, really yummy. But you can put it in stir fries, you can just eat it straight. I'm not very good with spicy, spicy food. It is quite spicy. Maybe not for people who are hardcore spicy veterans.
Where does the spice come from? Chilli?
Yeah. This stuff called gochugaru which is Korean chilli flakes. I was surprised when I was first making it and the recipe's like, you know, 10 cups of this stuff and you're like just scooping it. It's mounting up. But it all gets mixed in nicely and absorbed. The smell of it is amazing.
Do we have to wait until next year to see your little fancy jars at the market?
The product as it is at the moment is safe to consume but I just have to get that lab testing done so I can do the best before date safely on it. I was audited by a food verifier and I got ticks in the right places so it is just this one last shelf life testing I need to get done.
Well done. I think that is so good. I think nowadays people are specialising in food products and they are really good at one thing. In Melbourne we have Tarts Anon, and they make excellent tarts or Lune makes excellent croissant. So I think you are on the right track. Although it is Conversation with a chef and you're not a chef, but you have created this product that you are passionate about and I think that is great.
It is and it is a really cool process chopping all the vegies and mixing it all up. No batch is exactly the same so I'm trying to get the common denominator correct. Then you stick it in the jars and I like the wee stickers. I like the way it looks and I like holding the jars, they have a nice weight to them and the product itself is delicious and people love it.
Just to come back full circle, that idea of community and you being such a people person, you are not just putting it on shelves in shops, you want to sell it to people at a market and have that contact and talk about your product.
I look forward to being face to face with people and having the little tester bowls of kimchi so people can taste it and I can see what they think and hopefully they are happy.
I look forward to the next time I am in Christchurch and checking it all out at the market.