Khristina Mulyono

Hi Khristina, how are you? Just to let you know, I record our chat and then write it up and also use it as a podcast.

Yes, I've been listening to your podcast. I'm actually friends with Remya as well, and I asked her to tell me what it was like to be interviewed!

I love that! It's really good, sometimes once I have spoken to chefs, like Remya, we keep in touch. Remya and I like each others photos on Instagram and we have little chats.

It's a good chance to network. It's a small community, well, not small, but a like-minded community.

I'd like to think so and I'd like to think that hospitality is about connectedness and all of those things. But let's start with you and your story. Where are you from originally?

I'm from Indonesia.

And did food play a big part in life when you were growing up in Indonesia?

Absolutely. I grew up from humble beginnings. I am Chinese-Indonesian so my parents pretty much cooked Chinese food at home, but at the same time in Malaysia and Singapore, there is a culture of Peranaken cuisine. I don't know if you have heard of it; it is a mixture between the Chinese influence and local Malay cuisine that they have traditionally there. It becomes a national cuisine. That's what I grew up with; my mum's cooking really.

At what point did you think you'd like to be a chef?

At no point during my childhood. Actually, my parents had a very strong emphasis on academic achievement. I was the first one in my family to go to University. They never had the chance themselves to go to University and had no tertiary education. I studied English Literature and I was an English teacher for many years in my country before decided to move here. If you asked 20-year-old Khristina whether I wanted to be a chef, I would have said, probably not. But food has definitely played a massive part in my growing up. You have your Asian mum and that is her language of love. I remember Chinese New Year and my mum would be boiling three kilos or five kilos more likely of pineapple to turn into jam and then we made kilos and kilos of pineapple tarts that we would give away to all our relatives. It's a big family. My dad had six brothers and I had 20 cousins. Food did play a big part in my life.

Was it moving here that things changed for you in terms of going in a different direction?

Absolutely. I think moving to Melbourne, well, obviously the way to come here is to become a student and I knew at that time I just wanted to live overseas and experience that. I did a lot of interpreting for educational institutes, so I knew the system and had heard of William Angliss Institute and Box Hill TAFE and I had heard about Melbourne University. I had worked in the educational sphere. When I came here, there were two choices at that time; either I would do a Master of Education and be a teacher or a lecturer at University or patisserie. You can't have any more polar opposites than that. The things is my mum made cakes too and I grew up in the kitchen and at that point in my life I thought teaching was a very serious path and the other one was very fun and tactile, something a bit different a whole new adventure, which one do I choose? Understanding that it would be a lot easier to get jobs in hospitality than for me to find a teaching experience in Melbourne as an international student. Hospitality was a more practical choice for me, so that's what I chose.

It's interesting, isn't it? I did a lot of study. I did a PhD in Medieval French Literature which does not help the world at all and at the end of it, I worked Front of House in restaurants for three years and I loved it. I think it was the immediacy of the reactions of diners and a lot more hands on than academia. I can see with your cakes and desserts which are so beautiful and creative that you would get a different experience from teaching. People's faces must light up when they see your desserts.

That's where we get our energy from. That is the joy of working in hospitality. I'm just my mum's daughter; I like to feed people, in a nutshell.

Pastry is quite different, isn't it? It is very exact.

It is. I often say that you have to be slightly on the OCD side to be a good pastry chef. There is something comforting about it. Life is not always straightforward or linear; there are a lot of things that are out of your control, and I find in pastry, if you follow the recipes and follow the procedure, you will end up getting similar results every time. It is another way of feeling as though you are in control.

You chose pastry right from the start in terms of your path as a chef? How long did that take?

It was actually quite a long journey for me. It was also about Visa requirements for me at the time. When you come to a new country you have to navigate the immigration law at that time and it continually changes every few years. At that time, they wouldn't grant my Visa unless I stayed for a minimum of 2 years, so I just thought ok, I will do 2 years of study and do an Advanced Diploma and then decided what to do from there. I did know thatI intended to stay in the country, so I booked a longer Visa because I wanted to learn tertiary education as well and at that time I had booked a hospitality management course at Victoria University which I ended up changing to Culinary Management at William Angliss. I studied for five years, believe it or not. At the same time as studying, I was out there in the industry, I was working. I got a job at William Angliss short courses. That's where you see the cakes because I used to teach with them, teach people how to make cakes. Then I got a job with a catering company. Then I met Nick Bennett when I was able to work full time, I ended up working at his restaurant and it was my first full time restaurant gig. Since then I have done a few other things. I was a chocolatier for Koko Black. I like doing different things and learning the other side of pastry, not just restaurants. It's fun and there are a lot of different facets.

It seems as though the best chefs are those who continue to be curious and find out more. It sounds as though that's what you have been doing. I recently read David Chang's memoir, Eat a Peach, and he talks about how chefs should be like lobsters and shed their skins periodically and becoming vulnerable, which is about change and putting yourself in that position of trying new things. What an interesting time you have had. Tell me about the desserts at HER.

We do a few different desserts here. They are quite French-inspired and we have more traditional ones like the baba but we put our own twist on it, so instead of using rum, we use Frangelico. We have a beautiful white chocolate Diplomat that comes in a glass with rhubarb because we like to keep things seasonal. At the moment we also have a sourdough ice cream sandwich which is something pretty creative. We make our sourdough in house.

I've seen all Nick's photos of sourdough!

It's a learning curve for me because we make a lot of things in house. The lavosh and fruit bread for the cheese plate, the milk buns for the burgers, we do also make the dough for the pissaladiere. It keeps things interesting. On top of the dessert, we also have to look after all those things. Because we make the sour dough in house there so a lot of love going into it. Obviously there is wastage in restaurants and we have turned that wastage into a different product, which is an ice cream. We infuse it into the milk and make it into ice cream. I think, why not and it is delicious.

Who comes up with the ideas? Is it a team approach?

At the moment I am actually looking after BKK as well, which is the Thai place upstairs and I am also looking after Arbory and Arbory Afloat. I would have to say, especially here in HER, there are a lot of hands involved. I work with Josh Rudd our head chef and we bounce ideas off each other and in terms of what is practical to serve and what is exciting and seasonal. Nick also has input here and there. It is very collaborative. Nada Thomas who is the sous chef at BKK has extensive pastry experience from when she was at Cecconi's. There are a lot of people to bounce ideas off, which I find great. It keeps things interesting. I learn things from them. It is an interesting process.

Do you have cookbooks or do you look at other people's Instagram as well?

Absolutely. One of my food heroes is Christina Tosi, so it is funny you mention David Chang. Christina Tosi is my absolute hero for how far she has come. I have all her cookbooks and her cake recipes which are beautiful. And of course, Instagram now; I think everyone is influenced by Instagram. There are a lot of great chefs out there. I have just discovered Claire Saffitz and she has just published a cookbook that is wonderful. She has a podcast and YouTube series as well. There is a lot of inspiration we can draw on. And in terms of cakes, Katherine Sabbath who was a teacher as well and turned cake maker. She was probably the pioneer of the cakes with the outrageous colours and colourful drips. You can find inspiration everywhere.

Do you cook and bake at home?

Actually when I have a few days off, I do like to bake at home. My partner does enjoy eating my baked goods. The last couple of years with lockdown were a blessing and a curse. I baked a lot more during lockdown and did things I would never have imagined having the time to do at home. For example, I did a few batches of croissants and really enjoyed it. It was very achievable. That's how I found Claire Saffitz because she has a croissant tutorial video and that refreshed what I learned years ago when I was studying at William Angliss. I do still bake at home even though it is a bit unthinkable if you work here baking for eight hours and then you go home and bake again, but I like to feed people. My partners family are in Melbourne; his mum and dad and sister. Everyone gets a cake from me on their birthday.

Lucky them.

I'm happy to share what I am able to do. I like the look on their faces when they eat the cake and when they cut it and see the layers inside.

Some of those cakes are so tall, they are quite architectural.

That's the trend these days; narrow but tall.

Amazing. With all that in mind, what would your advice be to young people thinking of getting into hospitality and becoming a chef?

A lot of people would say to get into an apprenticeship and I think that is the most sensible thing to do. If you can get an apprenticeship somewhere good where you can learn and get a mentor. At the same time, I came here as an international student and didn't have that luxury of being an apprentice, I had to study and then find my way in. If you are passionate about it, you would find a way to get into the industry. Looking back now, I started in my late twenties and sometimes I wonder what I was thinking, but I got there in the end so if you are passionate and determined, there are always ways. Especially now; the hospitality industry is screaming out for chefs so if you want to become a chef, now is the right time to go knocking on that door.

Her, 270 Lonsadale Street, Melbourne