Ryan Berry

Hi Ryan. This is a beautiful place. I have friends who are big fans and were buying your pub boxes over lockdown. How has it been for you? Did you work the whole way through?

We did takeaways during the first lockdown and a deli-style offering, which was great for the immediate locals but we didn't feel it was worthwhile for us; there were nights where we would do two or three meals. It didn't make sense. Thankfully we could open up in June and it was gangbusters for a while and then obviously we all know what happened then. Then we were wracking our brain about what to do next. We looked at Hello Fresh and Soulara and those kind of food boxes and so we did the Pub in a Box and I think we did about eight week's worth. It was a massive hit for us.

It's a great idea and I guess a bit like Providoor where they were bringing restaurant food into peoples' homes.

That was very clever.

It's amazing, isn't it? I think there were a lot of things that none of us would have considered possiblebecause we didn't need to think about those things or other ways of doing things when everything is 'normal'whatever normal will ever mean from now on.

Exactly. I think everyone had to be resourceful and smart about what they were doing. Look, it didn't make us a lot of money. We probably made about fifty per cent of what we would normally make by doing that sort of food. But it kept our brand alive, which I think is the most important thing at a time like that. We definitely attracted a whole lot of customers we didn't have before. We started off with a 5km radius and went up to 10km and we were taking food out to South Yarra and so on, which is great, and people are now travelling across the city to come to us, which we weren't expecting as an outcome.

That's good, isn't it. In some ways, being so isolated from one another, it did encourage different kinds of communities so if you get people who see you doing this thing and it is done well, then yes, they'll want to continue to be part of it and come over here. Well done.

We had some customers who ordered it every single week, which was fantastic. They went on Instagram and the comments were fantastic and it felt rewarding to not only feel that support, but their appreciation. People were wanting to show their love and that felt great. And here we are after a massive couple of months and the end of the year was great for everyone and especially for us and we are very grateful.

Thank goodness. Long may it last. I was having a bit of a look at Naughton's online and I see that you have a really strong focus on sustainability and using local producers and I also really loved that you are part of the Good Fish Project. I've spoken to Sascha Rust in the past and I went out with a group of chefs and famous writers like Dani Valent and somehow I got invited to go to Corner Inlet where they were having a day with the fishermen and going out on the boats and having that real connection between chef and supplier.

That must have been special.

It was amazing.

Incredible. Sourcing is very important to us. We work very closely with a lot of farmers in Gippsland and we are becoming increasingly aware of factory farming and how animals deserve a better life and to be reared in better environments and that's why we do the best we can to source the best we can.

Is it more expensive to go to those kinds of top line supplier. I don't know, people always make that comment as home cooks that buying organic is more expensive, does it work out that it's harder for your profit margin?

It certainly is. And being in the pub trade, we can't charge premium prices that you might find in high end restaurants so there is a bit more pressure on the food cost, but that's just down to us to manage that. We have a very strong team who are aware of that and they love working with produce and we just make sure there is very little wastage. To tie in with that sourcing, we use a lot of nose to tail as well, full animal butchery and therefore we get a better price on all those cuts as well.

Are you doing things like filleting your own fish? That might be a stupid question, but a lot of places dont.

For fish and chips we don't but whole fish we do. During the month of November, December, we got whole barra in as our plated fish and we did all the filleting ourselves. But through the rest of the year we try to go to Corner Inlet only because of their fishing practices and how much we agree with that, limiting what they take and making sure it is as fresh as it can be. Then we break down all the fish ourselves; it's fun, it's really good.

It's a big thing, though, isn't it? Was it a couple of years ago when things were really coming to the forefront about wage cost and not having chefs and waitstaff work long hours and so I remember talking to a couple of chefs who said you've got to cut corners somehow and training staff to fillet or do some of those extra things when you can get supplies in already preparedthere is so much to consider all the time for you.

There's a lot of pressure, especially on senior chefs to manage those costs of food and wage, but it is equally, if not more important to make sure that next generation of chefs coming out have those skills. I was actually just talking to one of our suppliers this morning, from Barongarook and they love the fact that we take the full pig from them and it's important that our apprentices don't just pick up the phone and place an order for five pork cutlets; they realise where those pork cutlets are situated on the whole animal and they realise the work it takes to get to it and the meat surrounding it and how they can utilise that. That is equally as important as being able to cook a steak. We actually made the decision to close on Mondays going forward and take it as an opportunity to train staff on one of those Mondays a month, so on a closed day, we'll come in and get a couple of whole animals and break the down in the kitchen or it could be a pasta day or a whole fish day or a whole pig day or whole lamb, whatever that training day might be. Then we spend time with the chefs and encourage them. Obviously, that's a paid shift and that's a cost the restaurant can absorb. It feels better for us to be able to strengthen our chefs and then release them into the world a bit wiser and more intelligent about what they are doing.

I guess that engenders more respect for the food too, they're working with. Talking to Annie Smithers and people like her who grow 95% of what she serves in her restaurant in Trentham, that young people are more likely to respect and not waste product if they understand that you have nurtured something through from a seed to the plate and it must be the same with meat and breaking that down.

Precisely. The younger ones love watching the process from start to finish and their respect is definitely growing within them and if that can be installed from a young age as a chef, then they are going to be incredible chefs by the time they become sous chef or head chef. They will know how to utilise all those different bits and pieces, whether that be plant-based or meat-based. Only good can come from it.

What was your journey? Did you always know you were going to be a chef?

It's a bit clichd, but I think my mother inspired me. I grew up in rural South Africa where produce in the immediate was fantastic but getting it in from various other provinces was quite difficult. I spent a lot of time in the kitchen with my mother, who at that stage was working in textiles and actually just opened a restaurant of her own a couple of years back, a very small restaurant with only about 40 seats. Things are tough in South Africa at the moment, but she grows a lot of her own restaurants and serves them in the restaurant a couple of metres from where they are grown, so there is a lovely story there and she inspires me a lot with that.

I worked in Cape Town for a couple of years at a couple of pretty god restaurants and then decided it was time to earn the colours and move to the UK where I was for 10 years and did a range of different styles of catering; big hotels, fine dining restaurants and then fell into the pub game, where I met Ryan Moses (co-owner of Naughton's) and my wife, Laura who is one of the owners of the business as well. Ryan one day popped the question and said he wanted to go back home to Melbourne and I said I was ready for a new adventure, so here we are six years later and loving Melbourne. It is such a fantastic food scene, so diverse and always growing and changing, a lot more than anywhere else in the world that I have come across. It's a great space.

London must have been a great training ground. Were you a head chef over there as well?

Yes, I started off in Fleet as a chef de partie at the five star hotel then went up to Northern Ireland as a sous chef and then back down to London still as a sous chef and then as a head chef at a pub in Belgravia and I was there for four years or so. Again, I was working with incredible produce from all over Europe. It was just fantastic; such a diverse staff base from all over the world with their skills and knowledge. It was such a mixing pot of cultures and abilities for me to grow, not only as a person, but as a chef as well and it gave me a lot more confidence when I moved over here.

Moving to Melbourne, I didn't feel like I wanted to step back into that role straight away, I just wanted to get an understanding of the food and the culture down here. So I started off at a brunch restaurant as a sous chef and I worked my way from there.

Mind you, brunch and cafes have becomeand this is my analogy and so right or wrong!…it's a bit like, when we were growing up tv stars were the lesser stars and film stars were the big thing and now I feel like caf chefs have become gods, like film stars and being a chef in a caf is definitely not a lesser thing.

Definitely not. People don't queue to go into a pub or fine dining restaurant but they will queue to go into a brunch restaurant and it has gone from being poached eggs and bacon on toast to these incredible developed dishes that are flavour combinations that you can expect to see on a three hat restaurant menu. It's quite crazy how that sector of the trade has exploded. Its amazing. I worked at Hammer and Tong in its heyday for about five or six months and it was just such an eye opener, working with Emma Jeffrey and she was just incredible; so dynamic and diverse.

Yes! I've spoken to Emma.

She's an amazing chef. That was a lot of fun. Poaching eggs to order for 400 customers on a breakfast service, I thought, wow, this is insane. But I grew from that and learned a lot about the scene. There was no brunch in London at the time, it was non-existent; it wasn't a way people liked to dine. It is great to see its so strong here.

And cafes have those same constraints you have in the pub, price-wise. You can't really go over $25 for brunch but you have to do, as you say, those incredible dishes.

Yes. There's a lot of pressure on food cost. I have also learned thats something in Australia in comparison with the UK where it is quite easy to charge excessively in the UK where the prices are just assumed to be what they are and Australians are a bit more sensitive to those high prices and so there is a lot more pressure on the menu.

Where do you start then with creating a menu? Given it's a pub, well a fancy pub, you have a beautiful specials board and all your amazing suppliers, how often do you change your menu?

We change our menu four times a year to follow the seasons. We have a section called the featured producer where we focus on various producers around the country, more specifically Victoria, but we also branch out nationwide. We focus on their product, be it Azzurri from Daylesford who do an amazing burrata or Barongarook pork or Cherry Tree organics, we create a special around that item and the special might change three or four times in the two or three week cycle of featuring them. We write a little blurb about them on the menu to try and create a bit more awareness. The underlying message is that working directly with producers is something a lot more chefs should be doing. Then for the rest of the menu it has always been an ambition to make it as balanced as possible with gluten free options and a lot of vegan and vegetarian, because that's the way I love to eat. I was vegetarian for a few years of my life and there is obviously a strong following for that style of eating. We are focusing on keeping it pub friendly, not trying to recreate the wheel, just doing classic food as well as we can and keeping it easy to understand, not complicated. There are quite a lot of aspects to it.

Do you think about food all the time?

Yes. And this is actually one of the first things I ask chefs when they come into the kitchen on a trial basis, I try and find out what they like to cook at home, if they like to cook at home. I cook at home all the time. Its actually where I enjoy cooking the most; there's no pressure, it's just fun. I have my favourites. I love cooking spicy or Indian food and my wife is a huge fan of it as well. We have a little 18 month old now and he spends a lot of time in the kitchen with us and cooking for him is a pleasure as well. It's difficult to switch off. I think I don't dine out enough and I think that's a great way for chefs to grow as well and that's one of my ambitions for the new year to try and see what other chefs are doing. You can only get so much through Instagram and social media, you have to actually go in to the restaurant and understand the whole environment and how they are serving etc. It's difficult to switch off but I think that's the beauty of being a chef; I don't ever want to switch off. I think that's how people stop having the passion for it. I am always progressing.

Obviously everything you have said exudes passion and love for what you do and the product and so on. Does it get stressful in the kitchen? Do you feel stressed or is it a nice buzz of productivity?

It's a great buzz. I've got an incredibly supportive team behind me and we all absorb that pressure incredibly well. We have made it something we stand by, to create a strong work life balance. Our chefs don't work more than six shifts a week, so they are only in the kitchen for half the week. You can see it in their faces when they come in in the mornings; they are rested and relaxed and they want to be there cooking the food we are serving. That in itself gives me a lot of energy. I am very energetic myself and I like to push myself to see how much I can do and that's now a trait they are picking up themselves. My sous chef, Rusty is the same, very energetic. Passing that energy from the top all the way to the bottom has a long-lasting effect throughout the day. Yes, there are times when I might think, oh my god have we taken on too much, is this menu too evolved, is this project too big for us? But then you give it some more time and put some more effort into it and the dust settles and you find yourself makingfor example, a great sourdough we are very proud of. It's not something a lot of pubs do, but we now hang our hats on great sourdough we bake ourselves. That's a project we took on last year and it is now fully embedded in all our chefs and is another thing that makes us a bit better than where we were. We are always progressing.

It sounds wonderful. Thank you.

Naughtons Hotel

43 Royal Parade, Parkville