Elisa Hill

Elisa, it is so nice to finally talk to you. We have been trying for months. We were meant to meet in person and then that didnt happen and then weve had the pandemic since then. So it is great to be here finally. I have been watching your Instagram with such interest. You, to me, are the epitome of the chef who loves to cook because you seem to be cooking up the most incredible things even when youre not at work.

It has actually been keeping me busy at home. I try not to lose that creative side and that helps a lot.

I saw yesterdays post where you were really tired after work and you didnt feel like cooking but you had a beautiful bottle of wine and then the photo was of duck with various other things and I thought, wow, when Im tired and not feeling like cooking, I would not be whipping up duck leg and parsnips! But talk me through your story. How did you get into being a chef? Was that something you always wanted to do?

Im originally from Brazil and my parents have a farm so I grew up on a farm and my father was an amazing cook and he always cooked at home. I would watch him and then I started cooking with him. I remember him bringing a whole cow home and with the help from a butcher, he would butcher the whole animal and he would cook different parts and throughout the months we would eat the whole cow. My interest started like that. I realised that I really loved cooking. I went and did a hospitality degree in Sao Paulo and that led me to a job in a French restaurant and from there I managed to find a trainee position in Paris. I left Brazil when I was twenty-ish21, and spent a year and a half in France. I didnt like Paris very much to be honest.

The first time I went to Paris, I didnt like it, and I think it grows on you the more often you go, but also from when I first went to the last time I went, I feel as though Parisians have become more friendly to foreigners the more time has gone on. But I totally hear what you are saying. It must have been a culture shock too going from Brazil to Paris?

Yes, it was. I was quite young, and I had never really left home. When I was at university, I was living with family; with an aunt, because I am from the countryside of Sao Paulo state. Yes, it was a shock. I was completely alone and didnt speak any French when I arrived, and I didnt know anyone. I went straight to a really classic French kitchen. It was tough, but I learned enormously. In six months, I was fluent.

Wow. I dont know what year youre talking about, but I imagine a Parisian kitchen in a classic French restaurantwere they hard on you?

Yes. It was very old school. I had one of the chefs who became like my dad, my mentor, but there was the shouting. It was like a military regime; you couldnt smile, you couldnt be happy. I think that kind of mentality has changed a lot, thank god. But it has to be hard, it has to be tough. Being a chef is already tough; its physical and youre dealing with cold temperatures and heat all the time, but it seems like there was this mentality that it had to be extra tough. Especially in France.

Things have really changed, havent they, in terms of what is acceptablein many workplaces, but obviously I talk to a lot of people in kitchens and things have come a long way. I guess there was a certain level of discipline that came though the old school way. But like any job, you have to have your own level of discipline to make it work nowadays. A lot of people didnt come out of those old school kitchens with their mental health intact, so its good that things have changed.

Absolutely and I think that things have changed because there was a shiftI cant really tell you how the shift happenedif it was partly because of the work of journalists or the media, but there was a shift from the classic French cuisine to other cultures and other cuisines, which brought along a different type of people who were more open and more creative and they dont necessarily think that it has to be a certain way. In a French kitchen, it has to be done a certain way; there is no other way. There is a certain behaviour that is expected in a French kitchen. I think that has changed a bit as well. But they are so traditional with their ways. I was in England throughout that gastronomic boom. I arrived in 2003 and I saw it happening. It went from England being one of the worst places in the world to eat to now being one of the best. I watched all of that and I was part of it. It was incredible.

Thats amazing to be part of something like that; it is almost an historical event that youve seen in progress. For you, though, and your cooking, are you happy you did it that way; with the French background and then going to England or do you think you could still be the chef you are without having been in such a hard kitchen?

Difficult question. No, I dont. Despite it all, I wouldnt have changed anything. It was good for me because it taught me discipline and I am really connected to the culture. I didnt like Paris, but I love the language, I love the food, I love the culture and I love the wines. There is a reason that they are very connected to their own culture and with their country and their produce and its fascinating; I love that. It taught me disciple and to have some structure, and I see a lot of chefs out thereit was happening in England and it is happening in Brazil still, the chefs are finding that, what in Britain was called the Modern British cuisine and now Brazilians, with big chefs like Alex Atala calling it Modern Brazilian cuisine, using local Brazilian or local English produce, but basically the cooking is French. The techniques are French. They can say whatever they like, the sauces the way you make the sauces; the base is there. Im seeing a lot of chefs here in Australia, using fusion and a lot of Asian techniques and ingredients, but I see a lot of European techniques mixed with Asian techniques and ingredients, which is also very interesting. I think it was a very good school to have had; I wouldnt have changed anything.

So from Paris, did you go back to Brazil and then to England or did you go straight from Paris to England?

I went straight to England and then I stayed in England for a couple of years and then had to go back to Brazil to sort out visas and stuff, then I went back to England.

Were you in London?

Yes, London for the whole time.

Were you in the same restaurant in London or were you at a few places?

I had quite a few different places. I spent the first five years in London working in French kitchens with French people; my English was pretty limited, and my French was really good and I had had that experience in Paris which helped me. Then I went to Tate Britain, where they had what they were calling Modern British cuisine. It was a nice restaurant, working with amazing English produce and an English chef. Then I went to work in a very traditional private club called The Royal Automobile Club. That was international cuisine; there was a bit of everything and some of their own dishes. My last job in the UK was at Mansion House, which was fine dining banqueting for State events and for private as well, you know, cooking for the Queen and those kinds of events. It was a really interesting place. Its the residence of the Lord Mayor of the City of London, so they host a lot of state banquets there. They welcome Prime Ministers and politicians, so it was quite interesting.

I am so in awe of people like you who have such a passion for cooking and know you need to go to places like Paris or London to do it, but you dont have the language before you go, I think that is so impressive. I just dont think Im that brave. You could write your own memoir about your experiences; some of these places sound incredible. Now, one of the places you were at was Michelin star, where was that?

I worked in two Michelin star restaurants; the first was called LOranger, in London. It was close to Green Park, so quite central. That was very classic French and it was really really tough. But it was amazing; the produce we were working with was mind-blowing; the cpes, the mushrooms, the quality of the meat, it was amazing stuff.

Is there a higher level of stress and pressure in a Michelin star kitchen because you are always having to maintain that standard or is it that all restaurants are trying to maintain a standard? I guess there is always a level of pressure, but is it different?

Oh yeah. There is a huge level of pressure and a huge demand on those who work in Michelin kitchens. Basically, again, I havent done Michelin in a long time and it might have changed, but there is the expectation that you are not allowed to fail, you are not allowed to make mistakes, you are not allowed to be weak, you are not allowed to be vulnerable; you have to be tough, you have to be strong and you have to be a machine. You have to be that all the time. Even if you work 15 hours, on your 14thhour of work, you are still expected to perform in the same way.

Sorry, I interrupted you; you were going to talk about the second Michelin star restaurant.

The second place was called Club Gascon and it is still there. I dont think LOranger is there anymore but Club Gascon has been around for ages. I think that was one of my most interesting jobs in London. The chef is extremely creative; he really is an artistPascal Aussignac. He does modern South-West of France cuisine. Again, incredible produce. I lost count of how many foie gras I had to de-vein and cook and make. As politically incorrect as it is, I love foie gras.

I know, Im with you. I hate myself for loving it.

Im sorry, I do. It was very specific; South West of France. For example, we had these really fancy chips cooked in duck fat in the fryer. It was amazing. The type of cuisine from this area is quite heavy. You have cassoulet, ducks, everything is cooked in duck fat, there was foie grasthey are hearty dishes, but he turned that into Michelin dishes. It was mind-blowing.

My brother and I went and stayed with an older couple, the grandparents of a friend of mine, in Millau, which is heartland cassoulet and sausage country. They just wanted to show off everything over that weekend and even my brother who was in his early twenties and a meat-eater could not stand the sight of meat after that weekend. It was breakfast, lunch and dinner and hearty everything. I guess the chef would have had to refine that heartiness for Michelin star. Now, given the nature of the pressure of the kitchen and the long hours, what do you think it is and it was about cooking and being in the kitchen environment that pulls you through. That was all hard work and youd have to absolutely love it, wouldnt you?

Oh yeah. There is no other way. Especially in a Michelin kitchen. You can find amazing produce in simpler restaurants with simpler restaurants, obviously, but its the creativity, the art on the plate. It really is next level. There are not many chefs out there in this world capable of creating dishes and having harmony within ingredients and doing re-interpretations of classic heartypeasant dishesyou really need to be an artist and know your ingredients and your cooking and your food and your region extremely well. There is so much to learn and it is really amazing.

From London, what happened next? Where did you go from there?

I had my first child and my husband is Australian and we thought we had been in London for a long time and we had to decide if we were going to stay there or not. My family is in the restaurant business in Brazil and it was a dreamthey said they would invest in me. My husband wanted to come back to Australia, but I said no because if we went to Australia, we would never go to Brazil and never have that chance again. So we went to Sao Paulo and started looking for a place. I didnt know what I really wanted, what type of restaurant. Having a strong French background, I thought at first about having a little bistro, then I thought, no, and I was missing England, so I thought there wasnt a decent pub with good food and good beers. So I opened Camden House where I had classics of British cuisine, like fish and chips, made a little bit fancy and plated on a board. I had my own dishes, obviously, because that is what a gastro pub is; you get the classics and you get the creations of the chefs. I did five years there in Brazil with my gastropub. Then things started to get difficult for my husband, workwise, and I was extremely tired because I didnt have a business partner or anything. So we made the decision, I shut my restaurant and here I am, starting all over again.

Well, its lucky for us in Melbourne that youre here because you have brought with you such a wealth of experience but I know it has been quite challenging since you arrived and then you have had yet another culture shift. I even found there was a culture shift when I moved from New Zealand and I really did think that living in Melbourne would feel the same as living in New Zealand, and it doesnt at all, so there are lots of things to get used to. How long have you been here now?

Almost a year.

So you really just arrived and then half of that time has been in lockdown anyway. Did you get a sense of the Melbourne food scene before everything shut down.

Yes and I have been here many many times before we moved, so I started knowing Melbourne and getting familiar with the food scene quite a while ago. If I had come from London straight to Melbourne, I would say that Melbourne would be a bit behind, although its different. But coming from Brazil, a lot of things changed inside me because I saw thathow can I explain?…the chefs putting value on the produce of their own country and regions which didnt happen before, which is what this whole gastronomic scene changed around the world. The call is to value the local produce, so I arrived here and thought, wow, this is really forward thinking; the mix with Asian ingredients and Asian cuisine and I love all Asian cuisine. So here is another thing that I havent been exposed to and I am going to throw myself into it. I saw you interviewed Dave Verheul and that is a place I would really love to go; Embla is amazing. I have a few chefs I enjoy, and I really think the food scene in Australia is changing and is world class. It is a fantastic place to be.

I just really hope we can come out of lockdown soon and restrictions can be lifted because I so feel for the hospitality sector. It is devastating for a city that prides itself on its vibrant nightlife, I find it overwhelming when I think of all the chefs I have spoken to and their venues. I am so impressed with people like Dave, who have pivoted and are doing such great things in terms of delivery and takeaway of their incredible food and they might never have considered doing that before. It is very impressive. Now, I am fascinated by your appreciation for wine as well. You are really into matching wine and appreciating beautiful wines and on your Instagram posts you can describe them in great detail. When did that start for you?

It is all related really. I started drinking wine young. When I started cooking, I started drinking wine, and I shouldnt say this, but it was before I was 18. When I think what I was drinking when I was 18, oh my god, but I have always been fascinated by it, as much as with food. There are a million producers out there and they have a million ways of producing wine, what happens in the harvest; because it is all about the work in the field. Wine is fancy produce. It can be expensive and fancy but at the end of the day, it is all about farming as well as the produce we chefs work with. It is all about understanding what that winemaker is making and what he has been though that vintage, if it rained, if it was too sunny, how he managed to make his wines. It is fascinating. I read as much as I can, and I taste as much as I can. I always like to talk to the sommeliers in restaurants, at work as well, and ask if I can be part of this tasting and join in so I can learn. It has always been a huge interest of mine.

Im always amazed how chefs have such an amazing palate and you can remember the flavours of ingredients know what is going to go together and I supposethat must help you with wine tasting as well; to be able to detect different levels of acidity and so on. Do you think that is right?

Absolutely. When we chefs create a dish, that is what we do. I made that duck yesterday and I am making it again. I wanted to add an Asian twist because I am starting to play and understand the Asian ingredients now with this exposure in Australia and I felt like, Ive got parsnip, I love parsnip, and Im going to make a pureeIve got a duck leg and duck goes with parsnip but I want something different so I got that wombok and just toasted it quickly in the frypan with a little fermented chilli oil and I thought, hmmm, will that work with the red wine? But it was an Aussie Syrah that is not oaky and heavy but quite bright and very herbal and I thought that might match, so I put it together and tasted it and it matched. But then when Im making a dish, or when all chefs are making dishes, they always think of a balance, which is the same for wine. If you are working with sweet ingredientsI wouldnt put parsnip and celeriac together, for example, because they are both vegetables that are sweet. But I could put parsnip with wombok and toast that in a frypan and that will be quite bitter, so it will balance the sweetness of the parsnip and then I get duck and duck will match both really well and then the heat of the chilli brings and extra layer into the dish that is different to the sweetness of the parsley and the bitterness of the other one. You think what each ingredient brings to the plate and you are always trying to have layers and different things on the plate.

Your husband must love it; it must be like eating in a restaurant every night.

Yes, he is enjoying it, I think he is going to miss it.

Elisa, thank you so much for your time. I feel as though I have just watched the film of your life because it does feel very cinematic; all these different countries and experiences. And as I said, I have been loving your Instagram with your lessons on how to cook some dishes. They are a treat to watch because of your personality as well, so thank you and I am so glad we finally go to talk.

@elisaclhill