Drumplings is one of those places where you walk in and the dining space is cool, kinda edgy, you already know that the food is going to be delicious because, well, cheeseburger dumplings, how could it not be? Then you walk out the back and it’s all artificial grass and street art and basically an oasis of courtyard chic in the middle of the city. I sat down with Jeremy Raven, the magician behind the intriguing dumpling fillings (also beef rendang, mac & cheese, bangers & mash), and it seemed right that he sat against the painted wall so that it looked as though a butterfly had alighted on his shoulder. Jeremy exudes the delight he has in food, hospitality and traveling the world and I had a lovely time talking to him.
Hi Jeremy. I was delving into your online presence before talking to you and I see that you’re a Kiwi too, which is always a good start.
Yes. Bay of Islands.
Yes, but you studied at Otago Polytech [Bay of Islands is in North Island. Otago Polytech is in South Island].
Yes, I did my apprenticeship in Queenstown. I left home at a young 15 years old and got on the first plane to Queenstown and started my training.
So you always knew you wanted to be a chef?
Yes, always.
Where does that come from?
It’s funny and there is a story behind it. We used to go to the pub in Keri Keri…Mum and Dad would take me to the Sunday carvery roast thing and the chefs were there and looked amazing with their old school tall white hats and white uniforms and knives. And I thought, right, that’s me. I was 11 and I said to my dad, I want to be a chef.
That’s so interesting. Often chefs tell me it’s because their mum was a really good cook, or that she was a really bad cook, but for you it was the knives. And Queenstown because…?
Weirdly enough I went to school with a girl whose Dad owned a hotel and I had said to her I wanted to be a chef and she said her dad had just bought a hotel in Queenstown and that’s ow it all started. I had a conversation with him and three months later, I was there.
Did it live up to expectations?
Yes. It was hard graft. It was back in the day. It was a very hierarchy driven space and my first head chef was no exception. He was German and he was full on. It was in a hotel with a huge team. It was a full on introduction for me but it was also incredible because it was so structured. I was the last year in New Zealand to do London City and Guilds, so I was trained under the old school, French methods. The year after it became the New Zealand Certificate. It was a baptism of fire but it was great.
You have had quite a journey from there and you are now more into concepts, perhaps, than being on the pans, is that fair to say?
Yes, I’ve been down a lot of different avenues. I lived in London for 15 years and London was an eye-opener for me. ’95 I went to London and it was brilliant because that’s where that I started thinking outside the kitchen space. Product development was my thing because I’m very good at understanding different concepts. I’ve done a lot of travelling. I’ve travelled the world, really, and have picked up a lot of knowledge of food and cultures and inspirations and what drives different food: the trade routes and origins; how it all began.
That’s what really fascinates me about chefs is this idea of having a concept and then to make that concept happen you have to have a rally good idea of flavour profile and then technique. There’s a lot going on, you can’t just come up with any old thing and hope for the best.
That’s exactly right. That is very much Drumplings and what has enabled us to be successful here. When we came up with the concept of a cheeseburger dumpling, we had to make sure that it was absolutely amazing on every level. It couldn’t become a gimmick, because if it was a gimmick, we would have failed. The key was to understanding what the true flavour of a cheeseburger is. And it’s the globally recognised flavour…and it’s McDonalds.
Absolutely. It’s that combination of the cheese and the pickle and the sauce.
I hate to admit that it’s Macky Dees…
How do you distil that? How do you go about doing it so that it works in a dumpling?
We literally create it exactly like you’re going to make a cheeseburger; we grill the meat, the cheese goes on it and everything is separate then comes together to make the dumpling. You’re absolutely right; it’s flavour profile. It’s about understanding it and getting it right. All our drumplings are the same; the beef rendang has traditional flavours. That’s why they have been a standout product.
I’ve heard a lot of people talk about them.
We have a great following already and we are only a year and a half in, so we are only young in the market. We are on the cusp of something large and we want to take the business to the next level and roll it out as a brand. It won’t be this model you see here, it’ll be more of a grab and go, which is how it began. It began as a quick service product and that’s where we are heading.
It’s about changing and evolving. You can’t be complacent. You can never sit still. You have to keep it moving and exciting for your customers; for the regulars and for new people that come here.
Do you think when you were starting out that you would ever have imagined this is what you’d be doing?
No.
You probably couldn’t have imagined it. Back in the nineties, or end of the eighties, it would have been hard to have imagined where food would go.
That’s a very good point. No, I would never have thought this. When I began, my vision would have been to work in Michelin star places. That’s where my direction was heading. My initial restaurants would have indicated that. I worked with Graeme Brooks in Auckland, he used to own No. 5. I’ve worked for some serious chefs. I opened a restaurant with Simon Gault in Auckland. That was my path then.
So you’re an ambitious chef and although the path might be different to what you thought, you are still doing very well. Were the London restaurants Michelin starred?
No and that’s maybe where my path changed course. I worked at a restaurant called The Boulevard in Covent Garden and I stayed there for 6 years.
That’s good going for hospitality.
It’s very good going. It was a mad job. A lot of my soul went into that position. It was 6 years of hard work. It was a big restaurant; a 250 seater brasserie in the middle of Covent Garden. It was super busy. 500 covers a day. It was relentless.
That was also when I started thinking, I can’t do this for the rest of my life. Luckily I then got to do product development for a brand.
Where do you begin with product development? I guess you’re going from your repertoire of flavours and experience, but do you refer to cookbooks or Instagram or does it come from everywhere?
I have written a cookbook called The Ravenous Journals because my surname is Raven and my business in London was called Ravenous. It was a private dining business. It was mad. It begins from having an understanding of core product and core ingredients and how they come together and that comes from my own passion for traveling and global research to be able to understand the philosophy behind a dish.
I guess you are also thinking about audience. A couple of chefs I’ve spoken to have said that these days chefs have moved away from the kind of food they want to cook to making the food people want to eat, less complicated food.
There are still some crazy chefs out there doing some crazy stuff. I always think simple; simple, good ingredients. I’m very local. I’m a Kiwi, so we have that at hear. I just draw on whatever is natural an available. All my menus are based around the seasons and I try to avoid imported products. Simple product done effectively and amazingly. I love that. I don’t want it to be too funky and overplayed. But Hats off to the guys doing that, but it’s not me.
You mention on LinkedIn a dumpling philosophy and I guess that’s it; simple. And also with all the talk of sustainability, I think it’s about the sustainability of the chefs themselves and you have recognised what you need to do to make it a lifestyle and so that you don’t wear yourself thin.
Definitely. I’m not young anymore and the full kitchen thing is a young person’s thing. You start looking at your life. I have an 8 year old son and that changes your view on time spent away.
And does he love the dumplings?
He’s my biggest fan.
Of course he is.
He loves coming here and being part of it all.
What would be your advice to young people wanting to get into the industry?
To be ready for some very hard work. It’s hard graft but be open to thinking outside the box. The generation coming though is different. We have a great little team here and they are very much made up of the younger crew. Just be open to learn and take it in but also embrace and find your own path; find what the focus will be for you in the future. I did that early, so I was lucky. I wasn’t just someone who went around in circles for too long. That would be my advice. Work hard and get stuck in.
There has been a lot of talk lately about the slump in the economy and the challenges that poses for hospitality, as well as Uber Eats and so on, is there a future for restaurants and people coming out for dinner?
Yes there is. I used to live in Port Melbourne. I lived down there for 10 years when I first got back to Melbourne and Bay Street down there, what used to be clothing and fashion retail shops have been replace d by food ad beverage. The industry is continually expanding. Unfortunately people suffer from it as well. It’s not for everybody. A lot of people try hospitality and thin it’ll be an easy wicket. But it catches people out. But I think the hospitality industry is here to stay.
I think it’s as you were saying, you need to have a good product and be consistent with that product and remain true to who you are.
Even here, it’s about changing and evolving. You can’t be complacent. You can never sit still. You have to keep it moving and exciting for your customers; for the regulars and for new people that come here. When we first opened, we almost had it wrong. The presentation of the model…we treated this side the way the grab and go model was going to be and we had to step back and see it wasn’t working and change it. We will never stop evolving. Deon (St.Mor) is incredible with his focus on branding as well. That has been our success. We tapped into the social world and we make everything look amazing. Everyone takes photos of everything all the time. We know that Millennials are our customers and we give it back to them.
227-229 Bourke Street, Melbourne