Jodie Odrowaz

Jodie, I just saw that you were leaving for America. So you’ve finished up at Iki-jime.

Yes, I just finished on Thursday with a pop-up as a celebration of my finish. It was great. They gave me space and creativity to do my own thing completely, which was really kind of them, to et my brand out for them. It was good for the restaurant too. We did 50 covers and it was all matched drinks with my food. It was great.

How did you go about planning for that?

I used a lot of the ingredients I’ve been using over the 14 months I’ve been working there. I was familiar with all the suppliers we’d been using; a lot of small vegetable suppliers. We were really lucky that they supply the best produce and that we get to work so closely with them, which is super important. I chose all my favourite things, so I put on the menu food I like eating; not necessarily reflecting Iki-jime’s food, but using their ingredients and suppliers, and with my spin on it. Simple food.

Did you have a favourite course, a dish you were particularly proud of?

I think the ice cream sanga was a bit of fun and has a nice story behind it because I love ice cream. Who doesn’t really? What I put inside was a little bit deeper than just milk ice cream ad buttermilk. At Vue de Monde they make their own butter, but they don’t have a purpose for all the buttermilk that is left over, so I made a sorbet out of that. I’m really passionate about sustainability and using everything. I find that’s where I find my creativity; what can I do with waste? How can you use that and expanding your knowledge that way; something that might be seen as inedible, completely done, what can I do with that? So buttermilk sorbet and then blackberry jam in the middle which comes from the farm at Burnham Beeches. We have a lot of blackberries so I made a jam from them and seasoned the with some herbs and loads of Myer lemons which came one of our potato farmers’ neighbours’ tree. They are super delicious and we are lucky because lemons are really expensive right now with the floods in Queensland and fires in the US so when we import them, they are $90 a box. If we can source some locally, that’s preferred. Anything we can get locally. obviously, is better. Unfortunately it’s not always available and lemons are a huge part of seasoning for us.

Were there other aspects of that menu where you were able to use everything and not waste?

Yes. I focussed it mainly on seafood. Mark Eather is the sole fish supplier and that’s why the restaurant is called Iki-jime because he practises in that fishing technique, which is a Japanese method – Iki-jime – or brain-spiking the fish. That prevents things like rigor mortis and stress in the fish and it remains fresh for longer.

What do they do exactly?

It’s different with each fish, but essentially they use a small needle and after they line catch it, they spike it in the brain so it instantly dies and then is stored on ice and sent directly to us. We get a delivery twice a week.

I used mud crab, ocean trout, a lot of preserved things. A couple of months ago we had a lot of John Dory in and they had a lot of roe and I cured them and made a taramasalata with them. I love that kind of stuff. It was delicious. 

I also used king fish, just the belly. They already use that in the restaurant. And some beautiful greengage plums…loads of things…organic potatoes we get from Trentham, native herbs as well, like pigface. That is really nice with mud crab, just picked and mixed through with baby sweetcorn from John Hobson. Do you know John Hobson? He’s a corn and asparagus farmer in Pakenham. He does beautiful sweet corn. I just did that barbecued with some barbecued pigface and a bit of lemon and a big bit of chicken skin on top. It’s simple, though. I like simple cooking. 

Oh and with the ice cream sandwich as well, after the blackberry jam, there’s another layer of caramelised milk ice cream and then an almond sponge between it with a brown sugar crumble. The caramelised milk was because we had a lot of milk and it was getting towards its use by date. It was still fine. We use Schulz organic milk from Timboon, so it’s super delicious. It comes with a thick cap of cream on top that everyone loves. If you grew up with farm fresh milk…I don’t know if you did…I did when I was younger. We were lucky. We got ours straight from the vat. So anyway I turned that into caramelised milk, reduced it by about ten parts and then made an ice cream with it, so elements of milk and jam. So it had a little story behind it.

So these ideas you have, are they because of the produce you have available…and I’m sure that is part of it…or do you get ideas from what you’ve seen other people do or from books or Instagram?

I think I am mainly inspired by the environment I’m working in and the people I am working with. It’s nice to look at books and Instagram, but if you’re not cooking and tasting it, it’s hard to source that inspiration. I’m a kinaesthetic learner, I don’t learn by reading, I learn by making and tasting and being involved in that. The ice cream sandwich is something I like to eat when I go to the supermarket and get a maxi bon or something and then I made it a little bit more refined with a story behind it. I haven’t done that before, but a lot of the inspiration was through Iki-jime and other restaurants I’ve worked at.

For example I made a cucumber salad with sunflower seed puree. We made sunflower seed puree when I worked at Vue de Monde and then I made a kvass…do you know what kvass is? It’s fermented rice stock. It’s from Eastern European, so if you have had borscht, beetroot soup, they usually make a beetroot kvass. They ferment the beetroot so they get that really tangy, tart flavour. I made one with rye. All the wasted bread at the end of the day, I charred it on the grill, infused it in water overnight and then added yeast and sugar the next day. It ferments and the finished product almost tastes and smells like beer. Then you reduce it right down to a glaze and get this bready, yeasty, beery glaze. Then I added a little bit of acid, salt, mountain pepper. I learned to make that when I was working in London at a restaurant called Fera, it's closed down now, unfortunately. One of the chefs, he was Polish, taught me that. Little bits come from everywhere. I think every chef is like that. You take little bits of inspiration from everywhere and then make something your own.

It seems as though you have already had a lot of experience already. How long have you been a chef?

Five years.

You’ve packed a lot in and at really good places.

I did my apprenticeship at Vue de Monde. I fast-tracked that though, I did it in just over two years.

How do you fast track it?

Prior to that I studied hospitality management and patisserie, so I had already done some hospitality studies and so all of my theory subjects were already marked off and I just needed to do the practical. At the end of my apprenticeship I was cooking on the fish section and on the pans so it was seen as almost a chef de partie kind of role and I was in my second year of an apprenticeship. It was great. I experienced a lot there and I had some incredible mentors and a lot of people who gave me a lot of opportunities. I worked nearly every section. I spent a lot of time on pastry, a lot of time on fish, did a little bit on larder and a little bit on meat garnish…I just didn’t get to cook the meat. 

After that I went to the UK and worked in Edinburgh for a year at Number One, a one Michelin star restaurant in the Balmoral Hotel which is right next to the train station. It’s one of the most historic old buildings and hotels in Edinburgh, so it was very nice. It was very classic; produce-driven with Scottish produce but a lot of French influences. So it was great. 

What I learned at Vue de Monde wasn’t very classic cooking because at the time it was Cory Campbell. He used to work at Noma and has a lot of Scandinavian influences so he doesn’t use things like mirepoix and stocks. The food was very Australian, and I wouldn’t say his technique was very classic. I learned a lot from him but if that is how you start cooking, opposed to classic cooking, it can be a bit confusing. When I went there, I learned a lot of mother sauces, the use of mirepoix, veal stock as a base and then building up other sauces. I learned about foie gras and how to devein foie gras. You don’t have the opportunity to do that here. So that was really special and I got to work with some incredible produce.

Then I went to London because I just had the two-year work visa and I worked at Fera, for just short of a year because my visa was cutting it fine. That was more modern, back to similar techniques to what I was doing at Vue de Monde, but also completely different. They had their own vegetable garden in the Lake District at their sister restaurant, L’Enclume. We got to use some beautiful vegetables, like seven different kinds of kale, and apple marigold and herbs I had ever heard of. I learned a lot of different techniques and worked with a lot of different people as well.

How big were those kitchens?

The one in Edinburgh, the team was only about eight or nine, so it was pretty small. We were opened seven days for dinner only, so the work-life balance was incredible, but you just have to sacrifice your pay check a little bit. Then in London there would have been 25 to 30 chefs, so a lot better. Both were hotels, but we were open lunch and dinner at Fera and there was a lot more of a staff turnover. It was great in Edinburgh because the staff was really stable; it was like a family. Everyone had already worked there for a year when I arrived and it was great. It goes to show how important stability is in a team.

I hear that a lot. There must be a lot of trust involved when you’re in a kitchen and putting things up for the public and your reputation is on the line. If people are coming and going it must be hard to achieve that.

Exactly. Training people takes a lot of time and care. It becomes exhausting because it’s not just the head chef or the sous chef that have to do the training, it’s the commis chefs and the demi chefs.

Did you get to do some training of other staff?

Yes, always. I think it’s included in the job whatever your position. Always when new people are starting. 

You seem like a patient, calm person, is that your style when you’re teaching as well?

Yes. It’s a two-way street though. If they’re not listening and writing stuff down, it’s hard. You have to put in as much as you take out. I am patient and I love training people, especially when they are interested and they want to shine and be really good at their job, which you can only respect. I think it’s my responsibility to give them the training I was provided. It’s really tough if you are working somewhere new and someone doesn’t give you sufficient training and you feel annoying asking 10 million questions. That’s always the hassle starting somewhere new, for the first couple of weeks.

I feel like you’ve had a really action-packed five years and last year you won the Josephine Pignolet Young Chef of the Year award for 2019, congratulations! You were up against a pool of other wonderful contenders. How many people go for that?

I’m not sure how many people entered. I didn’t ask, but a few of the finalists and I talked about it and they each seemed to know ten other people who entered. There were only five finalists. It’s an international competition and it’s open to young Australian chefs to enter, which is a great opportunity.

What are they looking for?

You have to write an essay based on your food philosophy and food style, which is really tough, that’s not a lot of words. You also have to send a video of yourself describing your ultimate meal, and then your resume and proof of ID. They don’t tell you what they are looking for, so it’s hard. I just thought, well, I’ll put me on a bit of paper and see what happens. I applied and they told me I was a finalist and the next part was the interview stage. I tried to do a bit of research to understand what the award was really about. I wasn’t taking my knives, so I wondered how they were judging my skills. I furthered my research and Josephine Pignolet was Damien’s wife. She was known as an inspirational woman, and known to be creative with a natural flair for cooking with a beautiful nature. I don’t know all her characteristics, but apparently I hold similar attributes and my philosophy is somewhat similar to hers and so they awarded me the prize. I think what they were really looking for is the nature of the cook; what they want to gain and how they want to progress in the industry and change it.

It’s almost like being an ambassador for the industry.

Yes. We had to say what we would do if we won the money, what opportunities it would enable for us. I think it’s about opportunity and not solely for the winner, but for the industry. It’s up to me to represent young chefs and be a face for that generation moving forward.

I focus a lot on waste and sustainability. But not just sustainability of food, which everyone talks about, but sustainability of chefs as well. That’s often forgotten. It’s good, there’s a lot of movement at the moment in Melbourne with auditing of hours. Most chefs would average 60 to 70 hours, but that doesn’t fly any more. It’s good, but it is difficult for business owners. You have to meet halfway. If someone is working 38 hours, I don’t necessarily agree that’s enough to learn in a week, especially if you’re an apprentice. I know I wasn’t doing 38 hours when I was an apprentice and if I was, I was asking to work more, but if I was doing 80 hours, I’d have been asking for a day off. So there does have to be a balance. Business owners…I just don’t think they can make money. They have to pay full wages and some of our generation don’t have the work ethic, they don’t see the importance of every single minute of their time and they’re not working efficiently. It’s tough to be a business owner. 

Even when you are working 60 to 70 hours a week, you can’t expect to know everything about cooking from your own employer. You have to go and read the books and do stages and network with other people at other groups to learn, socialise with people who are like-minded and put yourself in the right groups. You can’t expect to be the best chef by being spoon-fed. It’s like anything in life.

Where to next?

I’m going overseas. Next week actually, on Monday. 

Thank goodness I got in touch when I did.

Just to go back now to you getting milk from the vat, did you grow up on a farm?

Yes, I grew up in a small town called Nar Nar Goon, which is a tiny town and my dad grew tomatoes there for 20 years. We lived on 20 acres and lease part of the land to a dairy farmer and we have a deal where he could use the land and we could take as much milk from the vat as we wanted. It was great. I was in a family with three other siblings so you can imagine all the mouths to feed, and we loved iced coffee in the summer, so Nescafe Blend 43, a bit of ice cream, some ice and a bit of milk, that was our afternoon tea. Mum used to scoop that up on the way home from school. That was normal for us. Then when I was 13 we moved to Warrigal, which is about 30 minutes further west, and my dad opened a green grocer’s there. I’ve always been in food, exposed to food.

Did you always know you wanted to be a chef?

No. I studied hospitality management and knew I wanted to work in hospitality because I had done a little bit of work in a café and I used to cook a lot at home because my parents were working on the farm and I liked helping out. I loved cooking and how happy it made people. It was always a talking point, so I knew I wanted to get into hospitality, but I wasn’t sure what aspect. I left school after Year 11 and moved to the city to study at William Angliss and di my Advanced Diploma. I loved that and got a job as a waiter. I loved the front of house side. I was also a waiter at Vue de Monde and then after a year, I wanted to further my studied into pastry. After the pastry course, I knew I wanted to be in the kitchen full time. It’s difficult to get a job in a kitchen if you’ve just come straight from college, so to get my foot in the door at Vue de Monde was incredible. I literally just asked Shannon. But he knew about my pastry because I used to run straight from William Angliss to Vue de Monde and I’d always bring my cakes to staff dinner and I’d come in on my days off to stage in the kitchen. 

But I was scared because I didn’t want to sell my passion to my career. Cooking at home and cooking in a commercial kitchen is completely different. When I did my work experience I saw two sides, just in a countryside restaurant, but the chef had a bit of a temper and when I was working on the floor, the manager and owner gave me a lot of mentoring and I saw it as a really good path. I fell into front of house because I was good at it, but the I felt like I was sitting on the sideline. So then I just threw myself in the deep end and started coking at Vue on the pastry section and never looked back. I love open kitchens when chefs have the versatility to come out to tables and talk to guests. Most guests love it. A lot of cooks don’t realise how difficult the waiter job is psychologically. You’re dealing with so many different personalities and people with maybe stubborn attitudes. It can be challenging, so in that sense, I have a lot of respect for the floor side. I still love coming out and talking to the guests but I prefer cooking.

Would you like to have your own place one day?

Definitely.

Then you could incorporate all of that.

One hundred per cent. I’d like to do something simple, but not in the city. Something country. Eventually I’d like to move back to the country and have my own garden and cook simple, local, sustainable food. I don’t think there’s any rush for that. I’m taking in as much as I can from other people and learn from the best. Why not soak it up while I can?