Chacho’s is a new place in Windsor touting Mexican pizzas. Intriguing. We all love a bit of fusion, right? One Dan [Xerri] came up with the idea and brought another Dan in to execute it. Described by other writers as a pizza guru, Dan Pegg himself is much more self-effacing and certainly acknowledges the input he has had to get him where he is, which I have to say, is a pretty awesome place.
Hi Dan. Let’s start with how long you’ve been a chef.
Not that long. And in particular, with pizza, I’ve been doing pizza for around three years.
You were with Lazerpig before here, was that your first experience?
No, I was working in New Zealand working at a pizzeria called Tommy Millions. That’s where I learned to make pizza and where the passion really came, to be honest, because I moved from the UK to New Zealand. Although I had worked in hospitality, I’d actually ended up in the education sector, so I ate a lot of pizza and made a lot of pizza at home, but it was a sort of, come of here and make pizza. I found that I absolutely loved it and loved pushing myself to do new things and I’ve ended up here.
Where was the pizza place in New Zealand?
It was in Wellington.
Wellington in a pretty good hub now for food and coffee.
It’s fantastic, considering the size of the city, it’s amazing what you can get.
Well you need that because you can’t always count on the weather in Wellington.
People say that, but I’m from a pretty harsh place in the UK for weather, so it was fine by me.
What aspect of hospitality were you in in the UK?
I managed a cocktail bar and was working in all different hospitality venues, but the kitchen was something I was always a little bit scared of in a way. I found kitchens quite intimidating places and it has taken me a while to build confidence to be where I am today.
Is that because of the fast pace or getting the food out on time? What’s the most intimidating thing?
I guess I was out of my comfort zone producing high quality food. I guess it’s the fast pace and also I think the characters you encounter in kitchens are more intimidating than front of house. I know completely understand why they’re like that; the deadlines and high standards they have to meet. I completely understand why. I’ve been in some tricky situations before.
Do you think the way you deal with front of house is informed by having been front of house? Or in the heat of the moment is it hard to hold onto that?
Personally, I’m a very calm person. I don’t ever really get angry or raise my voice. I understand that people make mistakes, but I’ve definitely learned from chefs yelling at me. It has definitely modelled who I am as a cook today.
The pizzas you were doing in Wellington and at Lazerpig, are they similar kinds of bases to here?
Tommy Millions was New York style, predominantly by the slice and then at Lazerpig is Neapolitan woodfired pizza. They are two different types of pizza cooked two ways and basically what I’ve tried to do here is a harmony of the two. What Lazerpig do with their dough is very special. It’s a real joy to work with that dough. It can be equally as frustrating as it can be rewarding because they’re using leaven as their yeast and it completely varies, especially with the heat. It can really change the dough day to day. You can get some incredible tasting doughs or you can get some really tricky ones where you’re trying to make 700 pizzas on a Friday and the dough’s not quite right. It can be quite challenging.
How many pizzas are you making here?
At the minute, the most we’ve had is 100. But we’re only open in the evening. I’d say we’re still growing and getting our customer base sorted. We definitely have the capacity to do more. Having worked at Lazerpig, it was certainly the busiest hospitality place I had ever worked, and it has left me wanting to carry that on here.
I love pizza because of the dough; it’s absolutely why I love pizza. I love pizza because they have their own personalities.
Chaco’s is a combination of pizza and Mexican flavours?
Correct. It was tricky when Dan first put it to me. I’m someone who honours the traditional aspects of the pizza but I also love Mexican food; the colour and vibrancy, so when the challenge was put to me to come up with Mexican style pizza menu, I was apprehensive at first because I had never encountered a restaurant like that, but when I knuckled down and looked for the ingredients I could use and tested them out, I was completely sold. I sold myself.
I’m really impressed with how the pizzas have turned out, particularly the Holy Mole as we call it. It’s a mole base with pork and mozzarella and pickled onions. It’s a really unique and challenging dish. There are little bits like that running all throughout the menu that I love; little intricacies harking back to Mexican but also honouring some of the classic styles as well.
You said you sat down and thought about which ingredients you would use, but where else do you draw inspiration? Books or Instagram?
It’s hard because my pizza inspiration is from Tom Kirton who ran Tommy Million. He taught me how to make pizza; the fundamentals of dough and what a pizza should have. Then there’s classical Neapolitan-style pizzarias in New York who only have five ingredients. max on their pizzas. These are where I want to go with pizza, what I want to try. That’s my inspiration. So when I was looking for a Mexican style I was out in the dark, to be honest. I looked at famous Mexican restaurants and took inspiration from there and then it came down to experimentation.
As for the bases, do they have any Mexican influence?
I keep the dough classic; pretty thin base with a puffy crust, so a balance of the New York with the Neapolitan-style. I love pizza because of the dough; it’s absolutely why I love pizza. If you’re a chef in a high-end kitchen and you prepare ten of the same entree, they will all be exactly the same to the finest detail. But if I go and make you the same pizza ten times, they will all be different.
That’s why I love pizza because they have their own personalities. If you came in for a pizza at 5pm, it would taste slightly different if you came in at 8pm because the dough has been out and has been airing. Well, you might not be able to taste the difference, but I will know. Also the oven throughout the night creates hot spots so it cooks slightly differently in places. It’s fascinating for me; the dough, and watching it day by day as I play with it and put ingredients on it. We leave it for three days and things can change in three days. As I said, with the weather, the water we use, all that sort of stuff.
Yes, I’ve spoken to a few pizza chefs and there seem to be some strict traditions and rules around making the dough, especially the Neapolitan-style pizza. There are some who say 3 days, some who say 48 hours…
Whether you leave it in a fridge or not…
Yes and which flour to use…
And whether you use yeast at all…
And everyone I spoke to seemed so fierce about their rules.
I’m 100% more relaxed now. I respect what people do now with their recipes and the heritage of pizza, itself. But I also realised that to get the best out of our product and what we’re doing, I do things a certain way. People might not necessarily feel comfortable or agree with it, but it tastes really good and people are loving it.
What sort of pizza oven are you using?
It’s electric. I did get a bit of stick from the guys at Lazerpig coming from wood fire to electric. It’s very hard to replicate the properties of a wood fire oven. It’s impossible. But the opportunity to run a kitchen for myself was too good to pass up.
Of course. And a lot of the chefs I speak to have years of working with ingredients and a repertoire of flavour profiles…we have that as eaters, but I feel as though it’s different for chefs. How do you go with working out your flavours?
It’s just from reading and watching; years of eating out and gaining an understanding from that, just as a regular person who doesn’t work in a kitchen. But since I’ve started working n kitchens in a really professional manner, it has definitely been more beneficial to communicate with other chefs and talk with them. Back in the UK, I find chefs less approachable, whereas over here, I’ve found that it’s amore of a community.
I like hearing that.
People have been very open and helpful to me, because obviously it’s my first time in charge of a kitchen. Just talking to them and garnering ideas has been the biggest benefit to me.
How many staff do you have in the kitchen?
Just me and another guy. It’s a very small kitchen with high output. It took me a while to get used to it because I’m a pretty big guy and he’s also a pretty big guy, so we’ve had to work out how to move around.
The dance of the kitchen.
That’s it, for sure. The routine is quite rigorous. It’s a challenge, but it’s a good challenge to have.
So did Dan [Xerri] come up with the concept?
Yes. When I first met Dan, he laid that down to me, and like I say, I was a little bit confused. I’d never really heard that before. I knew there was a Japanese pizza fusion place across the road and that confused me too, so I thought, if that’s the theme of the street, we’ll just go with that. There really aren’t that many other people doing it, which could be a) worrying or b) a good thing to be doing something completely different. But it has been fun.
When people come in to Chacho’s, what’s the ideal night here?
The ideal night is you’ll come in, have a couple of sides maybe some nachos or elote (grilled corn with chili, parmesan, lime and tequila salt) or have a pizza or two. We also do burgers now to please the masses. We do a Mexican vegan burger. Then we have tequila flights and they’ve been going down really well. Thinking back to my student days and tequila, you’d do some shots and regret it the next day but the tequilas we have are such a fantastic range. There are magical pairings going on in the bar and I really appreciate what they do.
So yeah, have a good time. I want everyone to be relaxed. I don’t take pizza too seriously so I don’t want people to take it too seriously either, just have fun and try all the different things we have on offer.
L?isten to the chat here.
110 Chapel Street, Windsor