Aleksis Kalnins

Conversation with a chef: I could watch that precise filleting of a fish he is doing all day. Watching someone with really good technique is mesmerising.

Aleksis Kalnins: It's amazing, isnt it?

I was just talking to Ryan Spurrell yesterday at The Clarendon in South Melbourne and he was saying he just loved watching cooking shows when he got home from school and that it was probably the technique that drew him in. I hadn't really thought about that before, but I do love watching people like Andy Hearndons videos of all the little things he does when he is putting a dish together, the mise en place, I love that. It's so good that you've got people filleting and actually breaking down things.

I feel like these guys are all really good. I've worked with them for years and to attract chefs like that, you have to offer them this sort of stuff. They want to learn.

How's it going here since I last saw you?

Good. It's good. It's been a crazy day. Today we run the kitchen with me and the sous chef for lunch. On Friday he'll do the hotline and I'll do the pass and larder and then we switch over on Saturday and I'll do the hotline because we're so busy tonight, and that means these guys can get a bit of ahead.

I feel like I've always come in and talked to you on days when you're really super busy. Sorry!

I'm always busy.

ow's the kitchen working out? When I spoke to you right on opening you we retelling me about designing the kitchen. Is it everything you hoped for?

Yes. I was thinking about even last night, I thought are there things I can change and I think there'll always be stuff because I designed it, I always think like, oh, what could I change to make it better? But actually it's incredible. When we put the plans to the people we were buying the equipment from, they asked if I was sure I'd have enough firepower because of how compact it is. But actually it's amazing. Come summer we'll be doing 200 covers and it'll be absolutely fine.

I've been listening to Annie Smithers on the podcast, Deep in the Weeds and she was talking about how restaurants are living, breathing entities and they take on their own life. And I guess also the kitchen behind that. You must have to work in a lot of kitchens to know what you want and don't want.

This is an amalgamation of all my favourite kitchens across the world. It's good. But it gets sweaty back there.

I bet. It's hard in kitchens. At least you've got some natural light. A lot of kitchens you are tucked away from the sunlight all day.

In the basement. Where I cut my teeth in London, I worked in basements for four years and I'd go in in the morning and then come out 12 hours later. Some days I wouldn't see the sun. It's brutal.

You'd feel a bit jet lagged.

Whereas this is nice because you have a little bit of privacy, but then it's still open and I'm on the outer part so I feel like I'm in the restaurant and it I really pick up on the vibe and I can tell the s not going right or whether we need to slow down or speed up or something.

It's important to be able do that. Ryan was talking about that as well, it is hospitality. You're there for the people, aren't you? You're not there for yourself.

We actually had a big management workshop for the whole group up here last year and it was all about warm hospitality, what that actually means. It's not just giving someone good service. Its about being welcoming and also in the kitchen, making food that's really approachable, but delicious. Its everything. Thats what we are trying to build up.

Where did it all start for you? Did you grow up in Amsterdam?

No, no. I grew up in Carlton.

Oh! I misunderstood what I read. But you were in Amsterdam at some stage?

I moved to England when I was 18 and found cooking over there just by chance. I was really into it and I had no idea about apprenticeships.

What took you to the UK then?

I was pretty naughty, so my mum sent me there. She thought I needed to go. She had really romantic ideas about the other side of the world. She had really romantic views of London in the seventies. She remembered it being a great place. I had brothers over there as well, so she said just go live with your brothers. Get away from here. You are here. Okay. Maybe not that harsh, but you know. And then I was over there working like as a bar back. And then I found my way into a kitchen and then I got really into it. And then I got into Westminster College over there, just doing that one day a week for a couple years while I was still working, just because I wanted to learn more. And then four or five years later when I came back here from London, I went to a recruitment agency and they asked if I had done my apprenticeship? I did't know anything about apprenticeships. They told me I needed a qualification. I told them I went to Westminster College in London. And then they were impressed. I was super lucky that I had that. It wasn't like I was trying to prove something, I just wanted to learn stuff. Through that avenue, then I started working at Fenix and then I stayed here for a few more years. Then I went back over to Amsterdam and worked in some great restaurants.

What's your family background?

My father's side was all Latvian. Actually, I had a table come in the other day. A lady had come in a week after we opened and I brought the food out to her and to the table and she asked if there was a Latvian influence? I said, no, not really. I was just chatting with her and I asked how she knew I was Latvian and she said, you have the most Latvian name ever. Then they came back last Sunday with a whole table. There were six of them and they had all been to Latvian school here in Melbourne.

I love that. You strike me as a really curious person. So, when you're saying that you were over there and you just wanted to learn more, that feels right. So, just to go back to that, you were working in a bar, but you looked into the kitchen and thought that looks good?

No, I was working in a nightclub in Shoreditch. It was a nightclub on the weekends. It was called the Bathhouse. It was in an old Turkish bathhouse just next to Liverpool Street Station in Shoreditch. Friday night and Saturday was a nightclub, underground. And then Monday to Friday, it was a restaurant at night. I got a job there barbacking on the weekends. I just needed money. I spoke to the owners, they're friends of my brother, and I asked if I could do anything, cleaning, or whatever, I just needed money. I was this kid in London spending all my money. I was helping out cleaning during the day and the kitchen guys were all there. I'd help them do dishes, I'd help them do whatever. And then they knew I needed work, so I'd do a few jobs in there. And then I would barback Friday nights and there'd be a bit of crossover. Finally one day, one of the chefs had a fight with the head chef and cracked the shits and stormed out and they asked me to go and help them. That's how I got my in. Then I transitioned to working more there. And then finally I was full-time in the kitchen. I used to do a shift, there would be three of us in the kitchen cleaning up, doing everything. And then there was the room where all the dishes were next door. So I'd help clean down that kitchen and then walk in and there'd just be tons of dishes. I'd just start my dishes shift and like clear all the dishes. It sounds horrible, but I have really fond memories now. Now when I go to do the dishes, it takes me back.

Nice. And what is it about cooking or chef life that drew you in? Because it's more than cooking.

I don't know. There are so many things. Nowadays one of my favourite things is all the problem solving and the discovery that you are always going through. You can always change things and make them better, or a flavour will develop. I think maybe when I was younger it was a lot about the adrenaline and the rush. Even now when we have a massive night and all these checks are coming through and I'm on the other side of the pass, almost orchestrating it or conducting it, I get tingles from my whole body. I'm like, oh my God. I just have this high, it's almost like a drug. It's probably why so many chefs have alcohol and drug abuse because the similarities of that endorphin rush. Just so many things. There is the scientific aspect as well. I've always been, I wouldn't say nerdy, but I've always loved, science and books.

I get that. There's so much going on for you here, and I feel like the flavours here at Molli are so incredible; flavours and textures and just your combination of them all. How are you keeping track of that? Are you a spreadsheet person?

I love spreadsheets. I'll sometimes jot ideas in my phone on Notes and then everything goes on a spreadsheet. when I'm coming up with a new dish, there's a few ways I'll do it. But say when we were opening the kitchen and I had to to work out the functionality of the kitchen. I'll come up with how many prep jobs there should be in one dish. And then obviously I'll have the main component of flavour, but then I can work out how many levels we have to go and whether it will be achievable?

The other thing I think a lot of chefs do and they forget is we can all make amazing food, but the really tricky thing is about can you recreate it over and over again for hundreds of people? Maybe the restaurant fills up and in 30 minutes you have 15 tables coming at once. Is the kitchen going to be able to do it? You can tell when the food comes out and it's just not right. It's not how the chef wanted it to be.

What happens in that situation?

It's disappointing. I try my hardest not to let it happen, but say I'm eating in a restaurant and I can tell and maybe I'll speak to the chef afterwards and they know.

That was something we talked about yesterday as well. I was asking what's the difference between a good chef and a great chef, or even someone cooking something maybe at home and they can do it really beautifully but doing it again and again and again every night and being consistent. But we were talking about the fact that a great chef is only as good as his team or her team. And that's also part of the job, isn't it? You have to create that team.

And train them. And find the right people.

Yes and not pushing people under the bus and blaming them when you could have avoided a situation through good training.

That's how I was raised in the kitchens. It's like you are led by fear and if someone did something wrong, then youd yelled at. It was horrible. Whereas now I try to lead everyone, bring them along and if they do something wrong, for me it's because I haven't shown them. And even if I've shown you once, then the way that I'm teaching you isn't coming through. It's my responsibility as a leader. I've hired you. I really like you. The main thing I normally look for when hiring people is that they are respectful, and have some sort of intelligence. Do I have a nice feeling about them? So then it's like they're really my kids or my family. If I've shown you how to do something and you don't do it the same way, then it's on me. It's not your fault.

Just to go back to those flavour ideas that you're putting into your spreadsheet, what comes first? When these ideas pop into your head, are you thinking of the presentation of the dish? Or are you thinking of the flavour?

It really depends. The flavour always has to be amazing. I think a lot of people get carried away with presentation. It can go loads of different ways. Last night I was thinking about, I want to do a special for Father's Day. I was thinking about what fathers like traditionally. And also things nowadays have to be Instagramable, its a marketing tool. And then it just came to me. What if I made a potato gratin on a plate? Which sounds weird. So then this morning I came in because it was just fresh last night, so it's the first thing I had to do when I came in. I started to make this layered gratin on the plate and then cook it under the salamander purely for the aesthetics. But I know it's going to taste delicious because it's cheese and potatoes. But the aesthetic of having this thing that it almost looks like it is built into the plate, and then we can put a ginormous steak on top. And then I'm picturing a photo from up top where it looks like the plate is moulded into the potato. And then you just have this big beautiful, scotch fillet or something on top. So that was really aesthetic. But then other times it would be purely about flavour. Im developing a new fish dish where I want to make a kojin seaweed sauce and all I'm thinking about now is the sauce. Because that'll just basically be the whole dish. I want people to have one spoonful, and be, oh my god.

Sauces that do that, don't they? Those sauces that are just so complex, but not in an overwhelming way, they're just really savoury and balanced and delicious. I love that.

That's what I love. I'm also really into food at the moment that's just one, two or three tones max on the plate, but then is surprising when you eat it. It looks simple, and then you're like, oh fuck, what on earth is that?

Can you still be surprised by flavour or dishes?

For sure.

Your own or other people's?

Sometimes I know what I'm coming up with, but for instance, we're doing a Sunday set menu at the moment where I'm using it to play around with new dishes.I came up with a pork belly that'll we cook in the Josper and cabbage that we've steamed and then coat with lemonade fruit pickle and put that on the bottom of the plate and lots of herbs and then the pork belly over and then a lemon beurre blanc around. I ate that and I was worried that it would be too fatty. That's why I put all the lemons throughout it and I ate it and I was like, fuck, this is so delicious. And it's so unassuming, at the same time.I'll probably put that on the menu.

I'm really excited because it's almost a change of season. Spring's my favourite time to cook. Well sometimes I feel like I might say that about every season when it's coming out.

Because you have been waiting for it,and at the moment seeing the blossom and the wattle, it is very optimistic.

Spring's coming a month early. I went over to Natura on Tuesday and they said, it's going to be a really early season. We've almost got asparagus.

Nice. How are your vege beds going upstairs?

They're going alright. Winter's hard up there. It's so dry as well, in the wind. The hard thing is that you feel like it's getting enough water, but then the wind is drying out the top soil. So its just a lot of work. It's still fun. It's amazing though, who's got their own garden?

It's a good reminder, isn't it? Going back to Annie Smithers, she uses a lot of the vegetables in her restaurant that she grows at out at Babbington Park in Trentham, and she was saying that for her, the El Nino has been worse to deal with than lockdown because it's been three years of this weather that has made it very hard and very challenging to grow vegetables to fruition. I think when you're growing your own vegetables and facing those hardships, then you must be treating them differently when you cook them.

Exactly. Because its not just any thyme, this is our thyme, and you want to do something really special with it.

And just thinking too about the different kitchens that you've worked in, were the kitchens in Amsterdam or London different to here?

They had their similarities. For instance, I worked at Dinner by Heston in Melbourne where lots of the food was focused around the Josper. And then in Amsterdam, we also had a Josper, and I worked in a place in Belgium that also had one. And then in Europe, definitely induction is more prominent, electric. It's only really starting to kick off here in the past few years. But then again, when I was at Heston, that was six years ago, that was all induction. This is a lot more like a European kitchen, the way it's set up, it's just kind of like a mini one. I've taken the main things from the place in Amsterdam and Dinner by Heston and sort amalgamated them in here. And then a little bit of Matilda and Hazel. It's almost like some things that I didn't really like, like the size and how long we have to go, how long it takes to get from the pass to the pastry section, it was too many steps. Which is funny. Everything has its good and bad. Now because it's so condensed, when we are working, we're sweating, but then at the end of the night we clean down and it takes us 15 minutes because everything's so easy and quick. I like to get a bit of a sweat on.

Then you know you're working.

But you get the adrenaline. It's almost like a sport.

And so that's something that you thrive on rather than in that heat of the moment when you've got all the checks coming in and everyone's there. Is that enjoyable for you? You're not just waiting to get to the end?

That's when I get the tingles and I'm like, oh my God. I remember years ago at Matilda, it was the first New Year's that I ran there and we ran a five course in the first sitting and then a seven or eight course menu in the second sitting. And it was so busy and probably the most times I've ever called, Service please. Because for every course, every dish I was calling it. My voice was gone by the end. The checks just kept coming in and I was on the fly. At one point I was like, God, keep it together. At the end of the night Scott and all these guys were there congratulating me. That was one of the best feelings I've ever had, where I steered the shit and I kept it together even when it was chaos.

And you have to be focused on the dish, but then the overall what's happening? And your team and everything. It is full on.

I try to say to people when doing this, you have to simplify. I'll have all these systems and structures where, for instance, for a check, I have different highlighters, different things, and everything has to be in the right place. So then if I do that one thing, I just focus on that, finish that, and then move on to the next thing. It's almost like when there's too much noise, it used to happen to me when I was a young chef, I'd been trying to do this stuff and I'd be thinking about everything at once and then it would just all go a bit foggy. Whereas now I'm just like, ia that right, make the decision, move on, decision, move on.

It's amazing. I'm obviously so in awe of chefs, Ive got a whole podcast dedicated to them, but I'm in awe. It's incredible. And you're on your feet all the time as well.

That's the only downfall.

What do you eat on your days off?

We go out, me and my partner, we eat out a lot. It's weird though, I was chatting with someone the other week and they asked me, what are your hobbies? What are you doing to refill your cup, to have fun. I said, I get a lot of enjoyment out of work. And he's ok, outside work, work can't be your outlet. I said, I guess I go out and I eat at restaurants. He was just, dude! So I got my bike fixed and I'm trying to cycle.

That's something.

But I'm happy.

So, with all your experience in different kitchens and so on, what would your advice be to young chefs starting out?

Decide whether or not you really want to do it, and then if you do, don't give up. And always try and learn more. One of the things that really took me to another level is doing homework. As crazy as it sounds, but it didn't really feel like homework. I would go home and read about interesting things and having that extra knowledge, over time, it's just like training or anything. Treat it like a sport. The people who train the most after 10 years of doing it, you're just so far ahead. You just have such a broader knowledge of things. And don't give up. I reckon that's a good thing. But you really have to love it. It's a hard thing. I've seen so many chefs come through and they realise after a few years they're like, I don't really know if this is for me. Then you just need to make that decision and move on. Find something else that you do love. It takes a lot.

Molli, 20 Mollison Street, Abbotsford.