Alessandro Bellomunno

I went in to Flour Child as day was turning to night. Through the huge windows upstairs on Acland Street, the panorama of palm trees, the Luna Park rollercoaster and the setting sun is perfect. Where else would you want to be? As I waited to talk with executive chef, Alessandro Bellomunno, I chatted to co-owner Simon and had delicious and quite theatrical cocktails made by Michael, think, purified Negroni with smoke. Alessandro apologised for being late, but really, it was his day off and he had just been meeting a potential subject for his submission to the Archibald Art Prize. Because you see, not only does Alessandro oversee a busy kitchen with more Flour Child venues in the future, run masterclasses in the techniques involved in pinsa romana and have a young family, he is also an artist. As you can imagine, I had a lot I wanted to talk about and I was not disappointed. Alessandro has quite the story to tell. Eventually I let him get on with his day off and I ate prawns followed by pizza and felt as though I was living life like it was golden.

Conversation with a chef: Thank you so much for coming in on your day off. I was just looking at your Instagram and you're an artist as well as a chef. You paint!

Alessandro: Yes, I started painting four years ago. But I studied interior design in school and then I stopped. My plan was actually to become an architect. I studied at university and at the same time I started to work as a pizza delivery guy. This is where I started everything. I always say, its when I lost myself. Because when I started to work in the restaurant, I started to like it. There was a lot to learn. I started with pizza. I was delivering every day. And then every week they asked me, okay, you can do this, and I started making the dough. And I said, I like this place.

Where was that?

In Naples. It was really close to my place. It was a really easy job. Night time. I just learned a little bit more every day. It was interesting.

I feel as though obviously you are a super creative person because you're drawn to the arts and architecture and so on. But then you must love the people side of things as well. Is that what it is about hospitality or is it the food?

I like being in a group of people, with different people. The experience is different In Australia, in Italy and in London where I used to be in the middle. Really different people. For many people it is an easy job to start sand for other it is the job for life. You can learn different things from each of them. Even in art, you can find the same; each artist has a different background and they have something to tell.

What brought you to Australia?

I moved to London to try something different.

As a chef?

I didn't start as a chef first. I moved from Naples to Rome where I was running a small business, always pizza. It was a big company, Neapolitan pizza. I was working there, I moved from Naples to there. At that point I saw the difference between the two cities and I thought I would try something even more different. I went to London and I started in the kitchen, not as a chef, I was a dishwasher. Then I learned the salad section. I understood step by step. After three years I was the sous chef in this French restaurant. And then I missed a lot. I missed the weather of Italy, but I liked the environment with all the different people. So I thought maybe I'd move to Australia. It was supposed to be a one-year experience. Now I have been stuck here for 10 years.

I've been here 10 years as well. But from New Zealand. What do you like about Australia?

It's very different. I think I like the fact that you can move few hours away and you have a completely different ambience. The first place I came was Perth and it was similar weather, but different animals. Nature was different. I really liked it. But when we moved, you know, when you are backpackers here, the first thing that you do is a road trip. So we did a road trip to Broome and it was amazing. There is no one, there is nothing. You just drive a long way. In the same time, the road I did in two weeks, I could have done all of Europe. This was before I came to Melbourne. I was in Darwin for seven years.

Wow. Seven years in Darwin. Quite different here then.

So this one was my first winter after seven years.

Well even the summer here, let's be honest, it's not great. You don't live in Melbourne for the weather though.

So tell me, because pizza from Naples is quite different from pizza from Rome and then again from Australia. Tell me about Pinsa Romana.

My base is Neapolitan pizza. I had always done Neapolitan pizza. In Rome, a long time ago I did Pala pizza, which is almost similar to this one. Just the size is different. And then in Darwin for the company I was working, it was a Neapolitan pizzeria plus a bakery. The bakery made bread for Darwin pastries. We were doing all different varieties of dough using different flours, always trying different flavours, different stuff. When I was thinking of moving here and I met Eddie, he told me, look, we do these different products, I knew about pinsa romana, but the different thing here is they are using aparticular flour. I did some study on the flour and on this bread. It was really interesting, the story, what they were trying to do with the mixing. In Italy, we always try to do things in the same way. This is how it was, this is how we did it. And what they did here is they created a recipe of mixed flour that they used to do a long time ago in the Roman Empire. For me it was really something new. I came here to try to see the difference and there is a lot of difference in the flavour.

So is that because it's grown from a certain grain or is it about the milling or what makes that difference?

The flour that we use is a mix of three flours. One is rice, not gluten. The other one is soy, which you never would use in another pizza. It is a really high protein flour. And then the normal flour 00, wheat. Each of these flours does something different to the dough. The rice flour helps for the water because for one kilo of flour, we use 800 grams of water.So it's pretty much 80%, it is almost 50/50. Which makes it light. You wouldn't do it without rice flour. I mean you could do it, but it would be really difficult to work.

Did that take a bit of getting used to? How did you go when you first started?

I went to Rome for a class. I spent four days with them with the Di Marco brand. And they showed me the factory, they showed me how to do it. They were making different dough with the same flour in different ways just to see what happened to the dough. Let's say the difficult part is stretching, especially for me, who comes from a school of slapping the dough. In pinsa flour, you really need to be careful to leave the air inside.It's a different process.

How long do you leave it to prove?

You mix the dough and then you put it in the cool room or in the fridge for 48 hours, so two days. In these two days the dough will rise slowly, slowly. You are giving the flavour of the maturation. After 48 hours we bring it out, and leave it for two hours or three hours. And after that you can press it and stretch it.

What about toppings? Is it overall a thin pizza?

The difference is first of all, is that the shape is oval. It's not round. In all the other pizzas, when you stretch it, you will push the air from the centre to a round to have a crust. In this case you just make holes. So there are bubbles everywhere. It's light. We pre-cook the dough. You stretch the base. You pre-cook it for a few minutes. There is a lot of water, so you dry it out a little and then you put the toppings on and then you cook it again. What you have in other pizzas, the majority of the time, the oven is at a high temperature, so when you put a raw dough with the topping on top, it is wet and wet, it doesn't really cook properly in the middle. In this case, it's always dry, it's crispy, it's light.

It's much better, because in the other case, you're eating raw dough. So there is more of a process in your stomach. But this is dry. There is no water. Even if you think it's 80% water, in each ball the weight is 125 grams. We are talking about just 110 grams of flour, so all the rest evaporates in the oven which makes it really light.

So that's what you learned when you went back to Rome? And then you just practised?

Yes, I practised here and I got used to it. Once you've got it, it's really easy. We do a masterclass in Pinsa. When we do the master class, we show them how to close the balls and how to stretch it. And the people find it really easy.

But they need to buy the flour?

In this case, yes.

And then they do it at home in their home oven?

They can because, the normal temperature we use here is 300 degrees.

OK. Whats your favourite topping.

I always go pizza margarita. So just tomato, buffalo, mozzarella and prosciutto at the end.

I think that's the difference between Italy and France and Australia. I lived in France for a year and I always feel like for Europeans, simple is the best. And here there is always a lot of topping.

A lot, a lot.

I'm so intrigued by the art and chef combination. I read somewhere once that Cezane said he used to draw an apple every morning before breakfast, with the idea that you've got to keep your craft up. How do you balance things? I've seen your work. It's amazing.You need to give time to the art but you also have a very busy job. How do you balance that? And do they go together?

I started painting four years ago. I had never painted before. I drew. I did geometric drawing, especially for what I was studying. And then I just said, maybe I'll try painting. It was a period where I was really busy at work, and I really only had nights for myself. I was rearing a kid and the only time I had was really late at night. So I used to paint two or three hours per night. And then of course I got faster in time, but I don't really paint much. It's just two, three hours every two or three days. It helps me not to think about all the rest. I think painting is more about expression and it is my anti-stress. After all the work I do here, I can paint by myself, with music. And then that's it. After two hours it's done.

It's good because I think it's pretty stressful in a kitchen. Is that an open kitchen?

Yes, its an open kitchen. It's getting really busy here, and the kitchen is small. You always need to look out for everything. And then you go home painting and then everything is gone.

It's great. You have to have an outlet.

I think it's a good combination. When you create a dish, you kind of paint. You have the same process in painting. You imagine what you want on the plate; different colours. You use different colours, you do different products. You mix it together and you create your own paint on the plate.

I noticed too, on your Instagram, you describe yourself as a kitchen manager. But you're really an executive chef, right?

Executive chef, yes.

Kitchen Manager seems so humble.

I see an Executive Chef more like when you have two or three businesses, which is going to happen. But for the moment the focus is just on one. I think I feel more like I am managing: managing people, managing time, managing food costs, whatever is in the kitchen. My last job before, in Darwin was an Executive chef for different places. But the main one was a catering place. We were running all the catering in the Botanical Gardens in Darwin, but really big: a hundred people. My job was planning menus, planning how to get enough chefs to go there, training chefs.

So you went from delivering pizza place to be an Executive chef of a large scale catering company. What were the steps in between?

The step was definitely London, the experience in London. The French restaurant. It changed me because it was a completely different style. It was a really old restaurant, a 50-year-old restaurant, and they always did the same thing. It was good to see how they were following all the old recipes and the chefs had to be trained for the old school kitchen.

My first time in Melbourne was eight years ago was between Perth and Darwin. I worked in an Italian restaurant in the city was called Sarti at the time. Now it has changed name. The chef there was Paolo Masciopinto and I spent six months in the kitchen and it was maybe the craziest six months of my life. We were a really good team. I learned how to work in a small team. I got really passionate. He put me in the pasta section. We only had five pastas on the menu, but all fresh. Everything was made fresh every day. So gnocchi and other pasta and different specials every week. It was very busy, but I really loved it. It showed me how to run a kitchen with a small team of chefs, but really in the right way. Everything was so well organised and everyone knew what to do.

I love that. I spoke to Paolo at Bar Carolina and at Aromi in Brighton. I like to hear about other chefs I've spoken to. It's like a community. Do you think there's a community here?

There is.

Do you have a connection still with other chefs you've worked with.

I have a connection with him. I helped him in another restaurant before coming here. I have other people who work in the city that I used to work with years ago. I still talk with them. Melbourne is a big place with a lot of restaurants. And there are a lot of Italian restaurants, but we all know each other.

It's interesting in Melbourne because that Italian community goes back a long way. There's lots of old school Italians as well as the newer wave.

We are all different. But we are all on the same level and that comes from the old Italian school. But it's really connected to the tradition of the kitchen. These are things that are common to everyone. We all want to always respect the tradition, even if there are new things to try, new elements. We try local products, but there is always a tradition to respect.

I think that's something that we still learning here. Because I know when I lived in the South of France as well, this whole idea of seasonality, it really means something there. So when asparagus comes, the way French people eat asparagus, I'd just sit and watch, they would get their fork and they'd put it underneath their plate and they'd make a little vinaigrette and they'd take each spear of the asparagus and dip it in and eat it, but they wouldn't eat it any other time of the year. I think we talk about seasonality here, but we don't have that heritage or tradition. I think we've got a lot to learn about appreciating food and traditions and the ways of doing things because then you really love it more. I think you enjoy something when you only enjoy it only in season.

Absolutely.

From your perspective then, because you didn't think you were going to be a chef and now you've done all this great work and you've really explored it and you've got a life balance as well with your art, what would your advice be to a young person starting out as a chef?

A long time ago, 10 or 15 years ago when I started, people were more willing to work hard. Hard work wasn't a problem. It was not a problem to do a long shift because you were coming to learn, you were coming in because you loved the job and there weren't lots of options. Today it looks like people don't want to work too much. So, for me the suggestion is just follow your passion. If you decide to work in the kitchen, you need to accept whatever is coming: long shifts, stress, because there's a lot of stress, but this is how you learn. I learned by myself. I learned working in different kitchens, changed kitchens all the time, different cuisine, different styles, just to learn. And I never complained.

I spoke to a chef recently and he said it's like when people go to university, they know they have to put in the hours to learn and they're not paid for it. And I totally understand fair work and paying people correctly. But I think it's right. If you want to master something like art, like cooking, like anything, you have to put time into it.

Exactly. There are a lot of students at the moment. There are more people studying than there were before. I can see the difference. They're really good. They follow everything you said in the recipes, but on the surface it's not the same development. They learn more in the kitchen. They just need a lot of experience on the job. They are missing experience on the job.

And also maybe eating; going out and eating in places and knowing what it's like to be on the receiving end, trying different foods and things.

It's something that I did a lot. I love eating. I always try different places. Because thats how you learn. Today, and over the last five years you can watch videos, you can see everything on your phone. Before it was not like this. The only way to try things was going out and eating and tasting.

There must be a feeling as well, I think, as you say, you can learn so much, but something has to click. I speak French as well and when I was learning French, I used to think about what I was going to say in French, but it wasn't until it clicked in my head after spending time in France speaking French, that I really got it. It's maybe not the same thing. But when you spend time with something, you have to really get to know it and understand it. And it's not just about studying, it's about that lived experience of being in a kitchen and understanding the ingredients and wanting to understand the ingredients.

I think the lived experience makes you more passionate about what you do. Compared to studying and then just going from study to the kitchen and following everything you learned. But seeing the place, you get passionate about the food, what you are doing and then you get passionate about the ambience. I think the ambience makes all the difference. Even if it's a bad ambience, it gives you an experience. I had a bad experience in the same place that I had a good experience, but it's what I learned from this. I bring it with me. I had an experience of upset chefs, yelling chefs. Now you don't really see that as much, before there was a lot. But then you learn what you don't want to be and this is what I'm trying to do.

Thank you. You've given me a lot to think about.

Flour Child, 1/77 Acland Street, St Kilda