Charlie Cheng

Hi Charlie, how are you? I know you’re keen to have a chat perhaps about what is going on and we can do that, but I’d also like to know about you and your background in hospitality because I know you’ve had a very successful restaurant in Brisbane for years and then you opened one in Carlton here and it has been going really well. Where did it all start for you?

Well, I graduated and I have always had a passion for food. It was about 15 years ago and I wanted to bring Asian food and culture into the Australian mix. Back then there weren’t too many Asian restaurants. I went overseas and did an apprenticeship for several months and learned the technique and then came back and did a Shabu Shabu steamboat restaurant; Japanese. At the time, too, we were probably the first restaurant in Queensland to start selling wagyu. 15 years ago wagyu was not very well-known, even though it was bred here, it wasn’t very well-known domestically. 

How did you go about that? Was it hard to introduce that to the public or did they just love it?

I think they loved it so much. Back then all the wagyu was exported and there was a very minimal amount in the domestic market. Because we made a point of difference, everyone was selling normal beef and we were selling wagyu. Although it is a bit more expensive, I think people appreciate the quality.

I know what you do with the yakiniku barbecue style now but what were you doing with the wagyu at the steamboat Shabu Shabu restaurant.

We were thinly slicing it for the shabu shabu. Shabu shabu restaurants also do stone grill. You have a hot stone and you have a sizzling steak right in front of you.

This is a really silly question sorry, but what is the role of the chef in these kinds of restaurants because the diners are doing their own cooking?

Pretty much. The role of the chef is like the QC to control the quality of the things that go out of the kitchen. Normally when people look at barbecue they think, well let’s get some beef and cut it up and the customer will cook their own. But that’s not the case. For every cut of meat you buy, you need to know how to process it; how to cut it a certain way so that it is enjoyed by the customer and what sort of seasoning. We are more about presenting the original state of the product.

Does wagyu need to be cut differently to normal beef?

Not really. It depends on what sort of style of cuisine. Say you are going to s steakhouse, or cutting steaks like chunks of meat or if you go to Korean barbecue, you are cooking a fairly big portion and then the customers use scissors to cut it into finer pieces and with Japanese barbecue we are more dedicated…each piece is one bite. You would rarely see the need for scissors in Japanese barbecue. Every piece is done for you so that you can enjoy it off the grill in one bite. We don’t marinate the meat. It is just lightly seasoned with a bit of rock salt or sometimes we use sea salt. 

So it’s really about enjoying the simplicity and the goodness of that flavour by not doing much to it, maybe just enhancing it with some seasoning?

Yes, we have to extra selective about the products we use; the cuts of meat and how we present it. There is a lot of labour involved.

Are they the kinds of things you learned overseas? Where did you go to do your apprenticeship?

Taiwan. I am originally from Taiwan. And every year I go to Japan too, to look at different ideas. After I did my apprenticeship, I came back and it was more of a self-taught way. I learned things as I went on.

And also the business side of things, I guess, and how to bring in customers and what customers like? Is it different in Brisbane to Melbourne?

Yes. There is a big difference. I find Melbourne is more in smaller groups, more like two to four and sometimes five or six. Our Brisbane venue is a little bit bigger and we have 105 seats so we get bookings of 20 to 30 people at a time. 

I like Melbourne because in Melbourne you can do your own style, you don’t have to copy others, because Melbourne is very cultural. If you have a uniqueness, you will do ok but you have to keep improving because there is so much competition.

What are some unique points about Shinbashi? It’s interesting that you are down there amongst all the Italian restaurants.

So that’s the uniqueness. When you look at the Melbourne market, we started five years ago. Back then on Lygon Street, it was so busy and we thought that maybe we could bring a good mix to the area. Unfortunately with the traffic, in recent years it has died down a bit but I think us being there has made a difference. And as time goes on, more new shops open on Lygon Street and it will get better again. 

How is it for you in this current crisis?

Ugh. Surviving. I think at the moment we can’t think about opening. I think we are well prepared to make sacrifices to lose money for a bit but it’s a matter of how long you can stretch your business so that you can survive in these tough times.

I have spoken to a few other chefs this week and they are working on ways of doing things a bit differently, so delivering their meals and so on. Yours isn’t really a product that is deliverable, is it? Because it’s all about barbecuing your own food at the table.

Yes. We have started devising different ways for our customers to enjoy our food as well. Starting off early next week we will have a Shinbashi Butcher’s menu, so customers can order the meat and we pack it for them with our sauces so they can grill in a pan. We are doing something about it too.

That’s a really good idea because people have said it is hard to buy meat even because other people are now hoarding freezers and stacking them full of meat. So I think we will look to hospitality venues for food.

For our Brisbane shop we have decided that after next week we will take a break for three weeks; it’s a temporary measure. All the food in the supermarkets has gone, so that means people are prepared for a long battle with this virus. Everyone is going to stay home, so since that is the case, it is better for us to stay quiet for this time. I think the economy will hurt for a while, so I think we hurt for three or four weeks and then we can come back up again. It depends on how the Government plays the situation. If people still go out and there are more cases, I think it will drag on a lot longer.

It’s really hard to know. What about your suppliers? Another chef was saying that may of the suppliers had already been affected by bushfires and now if there is diminished need for their product, that will affect them as well. Who is your wagyu supplier?

Victorian wagyu producer, Sher Wagyu. We use a lot of Vicki’s product. She is very very good. She looks after us. In the wagyu market, I think she will be ok but in the long run, everyone will get hurt. 

And are you keeping your Melbourne store open for now? 

For now, yes, for a few more weeks to see how we go. Then if our neighbours need something, we can help them. The big thing for business owners is rent; that’s a fixed income that you can’t avoid and the other one is your staff. You are going to go broke maybe, but how many staff will also go broke? How will they pay their rent? So we try to do as much as we can for everyone and hang in there to see how it plays out.

Well…all the best. 

All the best for everyone. We have to stay positive. I think things will get better. We are the frontline. Hospitality has always been the front line of the economy. We are the first to be hit and I think we will be the first to recover as well.

Ok…because people will re-emerge and want to celebrate and eat and go out again. 

Yes. It’s part of our social life.

So, given that hospitality often faces many challenges, what is it about being a chef and a restaurant owner that you love? What keeps you doing it?

I think it’s about the passion. It’s always about the passion. In hospitality, most owners would have that passion, whether it is in your customer service and you are so happy to see people coming to you, you achieve something when you see people happy eating your food or celebrating moments. You make a lot of friends too. It is definitely a hard job, so if you don’t have passion, you have no motivation to go on. I think that’s where a lot of restaurants fail…the owner has just invested but doesn’t know about hospitality and doesn’t have the passion.

And you have invested your heart and soul into it, not just your money.

Yes. If you go to a shop, you can get a taste for the particular company…their style. It’s little things in their style. Customers can feel that.

Absolutely. I do hope things improve soon but thank you for talking to me. I look forward to going back to Shinbashi once this is all over.

We will be there, no worries.

Shinbashi Yakiniku, 294 Lygon Street, Carlton