Dan Briggs is the loveliest guy, a gentle giant with two great passions; his family (including a brand new and super cute puppy he got for Father's Day) and his job as Executive chef at Chin Chin. Dan has been part of the Chin Chin family for his whole career, which says a lot about the kind of environment the Lucas Group creates, and also about Dan's loyalty. I went in to Chin Chin on Flinders Lane on a Wednesday afternoon and it was pumping. I think it is always pumping. We talked about the phenomenon of this sort of popularity, as well as advice for young people thinking about becoming a chef, and Dan gave me a behind the scenes tour of Chin Chin, which I of course absolutely loved. I don't know if you know this, but the kitchens at Chin Chin are tiny. They put out so much food every service and it is a party in the restaurant and an absolutely perfectly choreographed and organised magic place out the back. I loved every minute of my chat to Dan and I know you will love reading it. You can also listen to the podcast here.
Hi Dan, it is so nice to meet you finally. We have been trying for a while.
Yes, hi Jo, I have had my hands full.
Well you must have your hands full, for sure; executive chef of Chin Chin, that's a big role.
Yes, it's a pretty big role and obviously being a large group I do a lot with the other guys across the restaurants as well so I have my hands full.
That's right. How many Chin Chin venues are there?
Just the two at the moment, Sydney and Melbourne. Matt's up in Sydney and he is the Executive chef up there and we collab together and discuss ideas but since the brand is so strong itself, it is 70% of the menus become a signature dish anyway, so then we have 20 to 30% to play with and be creative and all the side menus and events menus as well.
It is amazing, isn't it, the reputation Chin Chin has of queues down the street.
It's pretty cool, it does pump your tyres up a little bit when you have a peek outside and see that.
When did it open?
It opened 11 years ago.
And it still has that same pull.
Yes, it is still pumping. You can now book, so we book out 60 to 70% of the restaurant now so there are 300 booked in every night and then the walk-ins top that up and keep it ticking up to 800 plus on busy nights.
That's so good. Obviously the food is really good and it's a cool atmosphere, but you know, places like Melbourne and I write for Broadsheet sometimes and Broadsheet puts out something about a new place and everyone flocks there and then there is a new shiny thing and everyone goes there, what do you reckon it is about Chin Chin that keeps people consistently coming back?
I think it has to do with the whole experience. When we first started, we had a massive social media presence and Jess Ho was leading that and getting stuff on Twitter and Instagram and all that jazz and that created its own cult following. We back ourselves in that the food is good anyway and then we have all the art installations, and we have a good culture and a good team, good training and we make sure that it is a fun loud environment. Everyone comes in for a good time, sometimes a quick time.
In and out. But there is so much going on that it is good to know that you can go to a place and if you do have other things to do, like shows or whatever that you can have the Chin Chin experience and then go on from there.
It does flow like that. At 5 o'clock every day it does fill in pretty quickly and those are the kinds of people who are going to the footy or to shows and those guys are keen to get out again so it helps to keep the crowd pushing though. You know you can come to the front door and you won't have to wait too long to grab a table and you won't miss your show or you can get to the footy down at the G.
It's so nice out here on Flinders Lane, although there is a lot of work going on down there at the moment.
Yeah, they are doing all the gas mains at the moment. That makes it fun to get here at the moment.
Although at least there is no traffic coming down here, so thats a bit quieter maybe.
100%. The street, itself has been a bit quieter since Covid and we have lost a few restaurants as well which has kept us ticking along at lunchtimes; our lunchtimes have been very solid since we re-opened after Covid. It has been relentless, to be honest. About a month ago normally, it quietens down and we can all go on holiday and do the new menus and plan for Christmas, but it has been very relentless since we re-opened from the last lockdown. We are now starting to find our feet and slow down a little bit, but then we have Father's Day on Sunday, so off we go again.
Huge. So it is a zero to 100 really quickly.
Absolutely, so the kitchens run on high energy and a high vibe and I like to make sure everyone is having fun.
That's cool. Are you still on the pans?
Every now and then. I do love cooking, at the end of the day, so I do try and get in there at least two days a week. We have an expediter role, which is generally your most senior person who stands outside the kitchen and calls the tickets, but I prefer to have my sous chefs out there so I can be in the kitchen and that time I have in the kitchen is well spent and I can spend it with the juniors and put that time into them. That's the big thing about hospitality right now, we are on our knees for staff, but we have always prided ourselves on having good training and development and Chin Chin, itself has become a hub and a lot of the chefs I have trained have gone off to Yakimono or Hawker Hall or the other restaurants to take up senior roles. We really pride ourselves on that and I do feel that I have to be in there anyway and give them my time. The chefs really appreciate when the most senior chef is in there jumping on the pans and showing them how to do a Jungle Curry from start to finish and talking through your own experiences and guiding them.
Definitely. I thought it was interesting that you have been a chef for 16 years but you have been with the Lucas Group the whole time.
I have been here a while; I am like Employee Number One.
I am so intrigued by that. I love it. You have worked your way all the way through and up and it is interesting because it says so much about the group that it must be like a family and still offers you so much opportunity.
It has been excellent. I have a lot of respect for Chris Lucas, the owner. He has put a lot of time int me personally. There have probably been times when I have been out of line when I was younger and he has clipped me over the head and put training in place for me. I really bought into his vision. When he bought pearl, he sat me down and said, this is my plan, but if you are not going to buy into that plan, you are a really good chef and I am happy to invest in where you want to work and I am happy to get you in there and see what I can do and set you up for a six to twelve month period, but I would really like you to stay. That to me, was, whoa, this guy means business, thats really cool. His plans are pretty cool and if he can carry it off, I would love to be part of this.
I started at Chin Chin once he opened that up and then I have gone across to all the other restaurants. So, whilst I am based here full-time, I do a lot of time with the other chefs anyway. At the moment I am working at Grill Americano and helping Doug with a few small things and helping him along the way and how the Lucas Group runs and how we are so successful.
My advice would be to find a good mentor. I have had a lot of good mentors, like Geoff Lindsay, Adam D’Silva and Benjamin Cooper, especially, they put so much time into me. Benjamin, I met as a completed chef but not a completed leader. The amount of time he has put into me from a leadership aspect has created the person I am now, not just as a chef, but as a father and a person. That has been my journey, but for young people, find the right person who is willing to give you the time and treat you respectfully because you dont need to be treated like dirt. And then finding a work-life balance. I do think to be successful for me, and I know it is probably not politically correct, but you need to put in the time. I don’t think that is 80 to 100 hours a week but hitting that 45 to 50 hour mark. I do think a big part of where I have got to in life is from doing some of those hard hours and putting the time in and going out of my way to pick up an extra shift and the knowledge I have gained from doing that is huge. Finding a good mentor and applying yourself and the world is your oyster.
That's fun. Did you always know that you wanted to be a chef?
Yeah I did. Growing up, my parents worked a lot. Dad used to work six days a week. I grew up in a big family really, six of us, I have one brother and two sisters. Dad was always working, basically to put food on the table, so was mum. I spent a lot of time with my Grandma. My grandma was always cooking. My memories of her that she wasn't perhaps the best cook, but I grew up with her cooking and doing big stews and from a young age I wanted to help with that. I was always chopping carrots and it was my job to make the Christmas pudding every year. Even when I moved to Melbourne, I wanted to make the Christmas pudding every year. From a young age, I bought into spending time in the kitchen and now I am kinda stuck in it.
What do you reckon that was? Is it about the satisfaction of making things or, and also, making people happy?
Probably a bit of both. I like the creative side. A place like Chin Chin for me, I really enjoy working with the Thai guys. A big thing I try and teach my senior chefs in being creative is to harness and be respectful to the Thai culture itself. That is what I pride myself in doing at Chin Chin; doing some research but also one of my senior sous chefs is probably the most influential person in the kitchen as well as Benjamin Cooper, of course. But when I have any ideas, I go through her and ask what she thinks and what someone from Thailand would think; am I offending our culture? Am I respecting your culture? What can we do differently? And then adjusting that to the Australian palate. I do love that sort of thing. But then obviously, a heaving restaurant, people smiling and having fun and then when we are heaving, all the guests have to go past us and people tell us how good the food is, it is a really good feeling. Even if you can't hear over them half the time.
That's awesome. And just what you were saying before, that idea of authenticity and cultural respect has been coming up a bit lately. I spoke to Rosheen Kaul about her book, Chinese-ish, and we talked about how sometimes in a culture authenticity is about what is available, so you are using the techniques but then also using what is local and available here.
100%. Something I have also learnt is that by respecting the Thai culture and working with the Thai guys and what they are also trying to get out of me is, why do people like this food so much? It has always been about finding that balance in what doe Australians and people in Melbourne want to eat when they come to Chin Chin, but also what do they want to experience from Thailand and making it palatable for both and creating a dish that is loved and becomes a signature in itself.
Yes, and obviously you have travelled there?
A little bit. With how busy I am, I have had a few trips but I have also cancelled a few trips. I am also a young dad, so trying to spend that time, but Im going to try to get back over next year to at least. We have spoken on a head office basis and we are going to try to get back over more often. But I have been to Thailand and I really enjoy it over there. I really enjoyed meeting up with some of my old chefs over there and they took me to markets which was the most outgoing experience there, being so lost and having one of my chefs running around the most random place in Thailand.
What was the most random thing you saw, probably quite a few things in the markets?
Probably the amount of insects and offal I ate over there. When I was in a meeting the other week, I said, as much as I want to go to Thailand, I don't know if offal is on the menu this time because the amount of soups and sauces I was having with all sorts of things I had no idea what they were. Theyd tell me it was lung or intestine. The guys I was with had a good laugh watching me eating everything. I even ate a scorpion. I was asking whether I was going to die. But, really cool and I can't wait to get back over there.
Just to finish with, what would be your advice to a young person thinking about becoming a chef now?
My advice would be to find a good mentor. I feel like we have been very successful here because we go out of our way to create a program, we actually have our own Lucas Group apprenticeship program that I run myself. Basically all the guys go to school and then every three weeks we do our own mentoring. For example, tomorrow we are going to the abattoir and go through and see how everything is processed and then do a cow break down and a pig breakdown and then hopefully we can do it ourselves. We did a seafood one last week and the guy showed us how the place worked but then we got to do it all as well, so from start to finish we did the scaling and filleting and everything. I think really getting that training and time in and having someone who is willing to develop you and put the time into you is the biggest thing you need to be successful. I have had a lot of good mentors, like Geoff Lindsay, Adam D'Silva and Benjamin Cooper, especially, they put so much time into me. Benjamin, I met as a completed chef but not a completed leader. The amount of time he has put into me from a leadership aspect has created the person I am now, not just as a chef, but as a father and a person. That has been my journey, but for young people, find the right person who is willing to give you the time and treat you respectfully because you dont need to be treated like dirt. And then finding a work-life balance. I do think to be successful for me, and I know it is probably not politically correct, but you need to put in the time. I don't think that is 80 to 100 hours a week but hitting that 45 to 50 hour mark. I do think a big part of where I have got to in life is from doing some of those hard hours and putting the time in and going out of my way to pick up an extra shift and the knowledge I have gained from doing that is huge. Finding a good mentor and applying yourself and the world is your oyster.
125 Flinders Lane, Melbourne
69 Commonwealth Street, Sydney