I first met Dave a couple of years ago when I went into Embla for a chat. It would have been one of the first conversations I did and I loved every minute of it. Back then, Dave was running between Town Mouse and Embla and doing an excellent job at both. Now he is solely at Embla. I still asked the same dumb question about his cooking style and I love that Dave has now put me in my place twice about how much chefs hate being asked that. But Ill tell you something else, when I arrived at Lesa at 4pm at staff mealtime, Daves first question was, Are you hungry? This is a man who is the epitome of hospitality and I'm not the only one happy that he's cooking for us in Melbourne.
You've just finished school?
I have just finished school. It's lovely to be up here. I remember the last time I sat downstairs with you and you hadn't opened up here and you were talking about it, it's beautiful.
It was the best storeroom for so long. We had so much space that we had a Peroni slab desk at one stage.
Thats living life like it's golden, isn't it? I love those green tiles.
I'm pleased they work. We chose those green tiles off a two by three sample patch.
It's that kind of luminous green they have in library lamps on movies, maybe in libraries in New York.
It's an old colour called Brunswick Green, which has some kind of relevance. Its not too kitchen and when it's dark the tiles go really dark and when the light is on them, theyre really bright.
I don't know why I haven't been here to eat yet, Dave. I look at all the Instagram photos and want to…it's just time.
Terrible. Let's just go to this corner away from everyone tasting wine everywhere.
And ironing and so on.
Yes, well it's the first day of our week.
Ok, I see.
We're open four nights here and closed Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, which is quite nice.
That is nice. I wanted to ask you, because we have already spoken before and I know about the tweezers and so on, but I wanted to ask how big the fermentation is for you because it seems to come up on a lot of the articles written about you when Lesa first opened. Is that still a thing?
It definitely is. It always has been. But it has probably matured a little bit. Weve been doing it for eight years now. A lot of what we did in the start was quite forward, almost aggressive flavours and really quite strong. People were only just starting to understand it. I think whats happening now is that we are using them in quite background ways to build flavour so its not just fermented cabbage. Its more complex. We still make all our own misos and things called garum, like fish sauce, but not made with fish, with lamb or beef and chicken.
That's interesting. I read in a review not long after you opened and someone described you as a French auteur in your style (and here you have to visualise Dave rolling his eyes)how would you describe your style now?
I don't know. To be honest, I don't know what you expect when you review someone on the first night and youre the third table. Maybe by saying that she was quoting the language I was saying on that first night. Its a bit wanky.
It is a bit wanky but where do you come from with your food? Its casual vibe but top end food.
But that vibe come from what my business partner, Christian, and I like. Were not pretentious people. A lot of the fine dining weve had in Australia and New Zealand for so long, its not the case anymore, was based on what European fine dining was. That was this pretence that youre rich and there are white tablecloths and there was a big old English show which is not what anyone in his country enjoys. What weve always done is that you have an environment that is smart and comfortable. Its not this way and its not that way. You give service that is better than you expect, and you give a product that overall is better than you expect and that is overall what we think fine dining is. The question is hard. I dont like being asked and I dont think many chefs like being asked to describe their own food. Its like what do you say when the Uber driver asks you what kind of restaurant it is. I say Modern Australia because its just too hard to explain.
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I guess maybe what I mean is, when you're putting a menu together, what are your inspirations? Where do you start?
It's almost a chef clich these days but we are really lucky. Weve got a close relationship with these guys called Transition Farm. Im lucky enough to be have been involved with the Delicious Produce Awards panel for the last few years. The first time I did it, I ate a radish that when I bit into it, it dripped down my chin and I tell this story all the time, but it absolutely blew me away. Ive never had anything like that happen from that vegetable and I love vegetables. The flavour was amazing and the rest of the produce they grow is so flavourful that its mind blowing when you go back to something that has no flavour. We have over the years developed a relationship where they contract-grow for us. Im in the process of doing a garden plan now and we commit to weekly amounts from them into next winter. The benefit of that is we know what we can do and we can do things that are different and that is really really good.
Where are they?
They're at the bottom of the Mornington Peninsula. They're a husband and wife team, amazing people, so incredibly passionate. Its finding people like. So we have them for the majority of our produce and then we have four or five others for the main organic vegetables and then a whole bunch of others that do speciality things.
Do you think about food 24/7?
No.
So you can just come to work and switch on and then switch off again?
You have to be able to switch off or you'd go mad and become completely boring.
Is that ability to switch off something that happens as you get older or do you think it's about personality?
I think it's both. I think its about certain personalities and growing into it. This industry now, for us, is about concentrating on creating balance and its happening throughout the industry with a lot of the younger chefs. A lot of the older chefs are being forced to fall into line, whether it be via Fair Work, and things like that. The culture is changing and its changing for the good. Having balance is a good way of getting longevity out of yourself and your staff, so no, I don't think about food all the time.
I won't cook on my first day off and on the second I love to cook, and I teach my boys how to make pasta and tortellini and things like that.
Thats cool. And youve been doing a bit of traveling lately, to Sri Lanka and New Zealand. Are there things you discover when youre traveling you think you could use or is it purely about the enjoyment of the experience at the time?
I think as a cook, youre always open-minded. If you like something and youre truly interested, youre always going to pick up on things. Sri Lanka with my fiance and the family was absolutely incredible. We dont eat meat at home and Sri Lanka as a country has a huge population of vegetarians with the various religions. The vegetarian culture there is incredible and I ate some of the best vegetarian things I have eaten in my life. Some of them dont translate and some of them do. I think everywhere you go you see things and pick up things.
Its interesting, isnt it. Youve been doing some collaborations in New Zealand. I guess thats because of the connections you have there. Is it nice ti check in with home and the cooking scene there again?
Youre a kiwi, aren't you? To be honest I hadnt been back to Wellington for six years when I moved here to open Town Mouse. It was interesting to go back there. Its still bloody windy and its still bloody cold. But its nice. The Food Festival we were doing there, Wellington on a Plate, has really grown up in a lot of ways. Its good to go back and see familiar faces. I got to do some really sweet things like, cook for some friends and cook for my tutors who trained me years and years ago. I really enjoyed that.
New Zealand has an amazing food scene. It has amazing produce. It has a way to come in some aspects. Its not a culture thats used to dining out all the time. Its still very special occasion based.
I think youre right; there has been a maturing there and in terms of what restaurants are doing and chefs are offering. I dont want to say, even in Christchurch, its just because I come from there
Christchurch is doing great things.
Yes it is. I think you and I have talked about Alex (Davies) from Gatherings and Flip Grater doing her vegan deli and so on. There are all kinds of things going on. I like the way people are talking about food. Theres the initiative, ConversatioNZ, with people coming together and doing interesting projects.
Yes. I think Giulio (Sturla) really did a lot for Christchurch and if there is anything positive to be taken from what happened after the earthquakes, it probably gave the city some creative energy and there are young people doing young things because the opportunity was there. A lot of people left but I think the people who stuck it out did some interesting things.
I do love seeing what theyre doing.
Hospitality is hard work but there are many kind of joys you can have throughout your day that make it fun and enjoyable. By the nature of it, its a job about consistent repetition, so finding all the bits int here that give you enjoyment is part of the thing. If you can have a front of house team who get along and have a good time and a bit of banter but its serious when its serious, and its fun when its fun. I think that kind of energy across the board and that kind of engagement comes through in what people put on the plate or put in the glass and the service that they give. I think thats really important.
I always get a sense from you that community and connection are important to you and it seems to me that you relish being part of the chef community here in that you have good relationships with other chefs and speak fondly and respectfully of them. I like hearing that. I think a few years ago, it was more competitive and I like hearing chefs speak well of each other. The industry has been through a lot and that offers hope.
As I said before, the industry is changing and is going to change more. When we trained, you would work 90 hours a week, week in, week out and sacrifice everything. Everyone was guarded with their knowledge and recipes because they thought someone might steal it. But in this day and age, its not the case. You can find everything, everyone can do everything and everyone does anything anyway. Were almost going into a place where everything is visible from everywhere in the world, so there is a little bit of a mono style that happens and its hard to be truly unique.
Maybe. But then every time I see photos of your foodand Im not sucking up to youyour food does seem very different; the different combinations of flavours and textures.
Its a bit weird. Its not for everyone.
But clearly it is for lots of people. Oh, thats what I was going to ask youwhats it like being one of the hottest chefs in Melbourne?
Shut up.
And modelling on top of a whole lot of chairs. Thats a whole other aspect of chef life.
I think the good thing that came out of that was that there was only one staff member who caught me on top of those chairs that day and took a photo. It could have been worse.
Its pretty good though.
It is good. Im not going to say much about that.
I dont imagine youre someone who courts fame and having your photo everywhere and people talking about you. Theres a genuine sense that you love what youre doing.
Its a funny thing. There are two sides to it. Theres an extent where you have to get out there and be the face for your business but you may not enjoy that so much either.
I dont think many chefs do really. Traditionally you were all stuck out there in the back in the kitchen preparing the food and no one ever saw what the chef looked like, now we have open kitchens and we get to see what you look like.
You didnt used to have to have empathy as part of your skill set either.
I remember you saying last time we spoke, because I was impressed with the way the front of house staff at Embla knew about the wines and could talk really extensively about the food and you talked about the fact that no one wants to work with robots, so it is about nurturing those people, and front of house are as much part of the presentation of the food as the kitchen, theres really not the divide there used to be in lots of places. I like that.
Its about finding people that have the passion to actually want to be involved and be a team. Hospitality is hard work but there are many kind of joys you can have throughout your day that make it fun and enjoyable. By the nature of it, its a job about consistent repetition, so finding all the bits int here that give you enjoyment is part of the thing. If you can have a front of house team who get along and have a good time and a bit of banter but its serious when its serious, and its fun when its fun. I think that kind of energy across the board and that kind of engagement comes through in what people put on the plate or put in the glass and the service that they give. I think thats really important.
I had this great vision when I was speaking to Daniel Salcedo at Citrico and he talked about going right back to planting the seed and the sun making it grown and then I was thinking about your couple down on the peninsula growing things with love
Thats pretty deep.
Yes it is deep, but I think, what were eating and what we get out of it can depend on how that vegetable or animal was treated as much as what the chef does to it before it ends up on our plate and I do think that eating can be such a transporting experience and it can make us remember things or create new memories and the old clich of food bringing people together. So I do think, that as cheesy or deep as it is, there is a whole cycle that we can tap into and really enjoy and get even more joy out of food and eating.
Yes, well you enjoy things more when youre happy. If youre in a bad mood and youre sitting down eating dinner, it would have to be pretty damn good to turn that around.
But what if the chef was in a bad mood when he made it, could that get translated to the diner?
Well, I dont know. I think I need a bottle of wine and then Ill tell you. The suns still shining.
That might have been too much, maybe. Well, I think Ive taken up enough of your time and you have service to get ready for. Thank you, it was lovely to see you again and now Im going to take your photo.
Lesa
122 Russell Street, Melbourne