Diana Chan

Hi Diana, I am very excited to be talking to you, so thank you in advance. With all that is going on at present, where are you and how are you?

I'm currently in the covid-ridden state of Victoria, in Melbourne. But, look life has been ok since last year. You just adapt, I guess. There have been lots of challenging times, but I always remind myself that I'm not the only one in this position. Everyone you speak to has definitely gone through some bad times last year. You get on with life and try and remain as positive as you can.

Absolutely. I'm also in Melbourne, so I am in the same boat.

Of course there are times when we are over it but at the end of the day, it is what it is and I haven't really found the lockdown too bad if you have a routine. I find that helps. I get up and I exercise, and I make sure that I still go to bed early. It's not a holiday, at the end of the day, even though you don't have anything to wake up and look forward to. I try and stay constant and treat it like any other day. That has helped me get through it.

I think that's really good advice and I have been doing the same thing. I think, I'm lucky in the fact that I have got work to do and so that gives me a routine and I am really grateful for those things. I feel for those who don't have work because I think that is much more of a challenge.

Absolutely. Given that I am quite flexible in what I do, I try and help out where I can within the community; whether that is doing some food rescue stuff or, like on Monday I hosted a cooking class for St Vincent's hospital for the emergency department because all the staff were highly under stress and, as a night off, we did a dumpling making class. Things like thatyou help where you can.

That's lovely and I think we talk about food bringing an aspect of joy to our lives and if you are able to give them something else to think about, I think that is a lovely thing to do. Now, Diana, obviously you are very well known in the food world and I am interested in the role food played when you were growing up.

For me coming from a Malaysian or Asian background, food is the pinnacle of every household. We have our conversations around the dinner table about our days and about life in general. Mum would always sit us down at the dinner table and the kids would talk about how our day at school was or my dad would talk about his day at work. Food reminds me so much of him in terms of family. I think the biggest thing I have taken from food; it's not just food for fuel, it's food that feeds your soul in terms ofwhen I think food, I think of family and I think of moments rather than the food, itself.

And for you, home is Malaysia?

Home is now Melbourne; I have lived here for 15 or 16 years now. But I grew up in Malaysia, I came here when I was 18. It has been greatpre-Covid I was going back two or three times a year. Mum and dad are still there and my brother as well. Thank God for Zoom really, and skype.

I was doing a bit of reading on your website and read about the Baba-Nyonya community and I was quite fascinated and that led me down a rabbit hole of what that means and, correct me if I am wrong, but it talked about baba and nyonya as being endearing terms for, respectively, men and women and that women were primarily responding meals for the family and community and so that's why the style of cuisine is referred to as Nyonya. Is that right?

100%. Baba are the men and nyonya are female. Let's go back a step, Baba-Nyonya are otherwise known as Peranaka; straits-born Chinese. If you think about the Straits of Malacca, there is Penang up the top, and Malacca in the middle and then Singapore. these three areas, and back then Singapore was part of Malaya. Before Malaysia was known as Malaysia, it was known as Malaya and Singapore was part of Malaya; we were all under the same governments. These three ports were really strategic for trade. Any trading ships from China or India would come to these ports and off they went to other parts of the world. That's where all the settlers from China came from, for example, who brought silk or spices or whatever, and they would marry local Malays and that's how this culture came about. It is like a hybrid. You've got the Chinese culture in terms of religion, background and food and then they have also married the locals who had their own culture. That's how it formed this unique sub-culture in Malaysia. There's not too many of us left. My mother always tells me I am the last generation, unless I marry a baba boywhatever, that's not true! The food is also really quite different and is unique to that area.

What are the features of their food?

The easiest way for me to explain is, think about your traditional Chinese dishes, like lots of soup bases and lots of stews. Think about the provinces in China where it's cold and there is a lot of slow cooking, so it is that sort of style. But then you use in Malaysia, a lot of tropical ingredients and there are a lot of spices, like chilli. So you are taking something from China that is not bland, but quite neutral and mild in flavour and then use the local spices and local ingredients to get a mish mash of flavours. It is fusion to a T because it is mixing all these different flavours and creating random dishes and that's why the cuisine is dying because nobody really knows about them. All these dishes are created at home. There are dishes that my mum has created and the only reason I know about them is because of her. I wouldn't know about them otherwise. And the only reason she knows about them is that her grandmother taught her about them. That's how this culture formed. In one dish, tamarind fish, it's in the form of a gravy, a stew, slow-cooked but not slow-cooked because it has really fresh ingredients. Then it has all these herbs like Vietnamese mint and kaffir lime, lemongrass, so really vibrant flavours.

So you would have been in the kitchen with your mum and grandma when you were growing up?

I was in the kitchen, but I never really go the chance to cook at home because my mum was the chef, the cook in the house. But because of that I got a really great foundation. She would give me a whole bowl of onions to peel or I would peel garlic. We wouldn't use a nutcracker to crack the gingko nuts, we would use a hammer and do it old school. She wouldn't use a food processor to make paste, she would use a pestle and mortar. Back then I would be so grumpy about it and ask her why she was doing it like thatwe live in the twentieth century, do we actually have to do this by hand? But it's interesting because I learned the basics; not so much in terms of cooking, but watching her cook and understanding the basics. That's what makes me understand food a lot better.

That is a fascinating idea. As you were saying that, I was thinking, well that's what a lot of those chefs do when they are apprentices and they go into something like Gordon Ramsay's restaurant and he would have them picking over the herbs for 10 hours. So you had your own apprenticeship in doing that.

I did it when I was five. Cheap labour. When you work with ingredients at a very young age, you understand the provenance of food; how it is grown and where it comes from. At the market you get fish and you know it is local fish. Then you start to understand a lot more.

I love that idea. One of my questions was going to be what "self-taught" meant for you. When we describe you as going along to MasterChef and so on, you are a self-taught chef or cook. Obviously you have that background, which is a really excellent background, but what's the next step for you, in Melbourne, for example? Did you just start experimenting with food or did you read lots of books?

Pre-Melbourne I was already living on my own for two years. I didn't cook so much there at 17. Over there in Malaysia, food is pretty cheap and vast. Shops and restaurants are open at until any time of the day. If you feel hungry at 2am you can run out to the local coffee shop and get something to eat. It's cheap and it is accessible. part of the reason why I didn't cook so much when I was a teenager was because that was present. Then I moved to Australia and I thought, oh my god, it is so expensive to eat out, and as a uni student I wasn't making money yet. I thought I would have to get a job to support my lifestyle and eating. You know at home there is always food laid out on the table, mum pays for it and you never have to fork out for anything. Then you have to suddenly work it out for yourself. That was when I thought, ok, I need to get it together and go to the market and shop and find the best deals and then learn how to cook using what I already knew. I watched a lot of cooking travel shows. I grew up watching Lonely Planet and Anthony Bourdain; food and travel was a big thing for me. I just loved understanding where food came from and what people ate where. Naturally when I moved to Australia, I just had to fend for myself.

Necessity is a great teacher.

Exactly. You do it because you have to and then you find enjoyment in that and it is even better.

So from thereand this is probably a worn out story from around the time that you wonbut what was the next step from that to deciding to go on MasterChef?

I was working in a corporate environment for Deloitte. I was there for four years, and I would often bring in leftover food for my colleagues and they would say, you're really good, you should try out for MasterChef. I had already started watching it when I moved here. I moved here in 2006 and I think it was 2008 or 2009 that there was the first episode of MasterChef and I religiously followed it, not knowing that one day I would be in it. I always watched it and thought, I could do thatBasically, why not give it a crack. If there was any time to do it and my mates encouraged me to go for it and see how I would go. And that's how it all started. I decided to just give it a go. I had no intentions of winning it, just as long as I could get in and not be the first one out, I was happy. Then I realised that it wasn't that hard to get to the top ten. I am naturally quite a competitive person and so lo and behold I was in the running to win the whole thing, so I thought I may as well go all out, right?

Amazing. Congratulations! You would have been so congratulated over the years, but it is an amazing thing to have done. Is it the kind of environment where you can learn as well? Or are you constantly in a state of adrenaline pumping?

No. You definitely learn. A lot of people don't know this, but MasterChef is the longest reality tv show in the world. It is also one of the toughest, not physically, but it is mentally draining. From the start to the end, if you get all the way to the end, it is seven months of filming. It is seven months of basically living in a house with 23 other random people, strangers you have never met, with different personalities, all with different backgrounds. It can actually be pretty intense. At the same time, you have no internet, no phones, you can't contact your family or friends or loved ones. That doesn't happen anymore. It was my season and before where we wouldn't have phones and so on. It is a also dry house, no alcohol at all. You really are so focussed because you only have one thing to do and that is to cook. That's why I would say, I was good at the start, but nowhere near as good as by the end. You have seven months of focussing on the one thing and that is to be better at cooking or presenting or making the best dish and winning the challenge. We got a lot of help as well, in terms of having chefs come in. You know, in terms of an apprenticeship, you can go and do ten hours in the kitchen but we also had access to all the top chefs from around the world who help you and guide you and give you tips. It's what apprentice chefs dream of.

Absolutely. What an incredible time, and as you say without the outside world and other responsibilities, it really is a dream.

All you have to do is focus on cooking.

So then, once you won and your name and face are everywhere, does being a celebrity chef bring a certain responsibility?

Yes, definitely. Predominantly it is about maintaining that presence across your social platform and I think that is probably the easiest way and the most used way to get across to people or a fan-based platform. People who follow me tend to follow me because they know I present on food and do a bit of research about recipes and so on and the majority of the people who use these platforms are women or based at home or home cooks and look at these posts and might maybe make that dish after. So I think there is a responsibility for me to share, and not because I feel pressured to do that, but I feel like I want to give back and it is something I like to do anyway. I think it is rewarding that, while I don't have a restaurant, I get to share these recipes or tricks, or whatever, online and people can follow and do it and the reach is pretty wide.

Did you have to have your brandand do you even think you have a brand or are you just youdid you have to have that sorted straight out the gate?

That's an interesting one. I went into MasterChef with a very open mind and with no expectations. I thought, if I do well, great, if I don't do well, that's fine, I still have my job, because I had taken sabbatical leave. I had a loose plan. It is far from that now.

What was the plan?

The plan was to own a restaurant and to do really healthy takeaway food. That is absolutely not what I do now. I still share healthy food, but not in a restaurant. Well, I did dabbleI had a little pop up restaurant for seven months and that went really well, but my god, that took the life out of me.

There is so much involved with running a restaurant; it's a business, there are food costs and profit margins. Thats not just about loving it.

One day I might get back to it, I just think that what I have realised is how powerful having a presence is and can have an effect. Being me and doing what I love and people following that, can become my income earner and revenue stream.

Ok thenI'm a teacher as well as a writer and everyone knows how a teacher fills their day, but what does a typical day look like for you?

Today is interviews day. I have an interview in the morning and another one in the afternoon. Monday is generally my admin day, so I go through all my emails and so on and work through any invoices and payments and do on. The rest of the week, I could be scheduling in a shoot, creating some content, recipes. I write recipes on the daily I would say, whether it is one or five or ten. Because of the current climate, it is very different from what my regular day would have looked like two years ago. I was travelling a fair bit. MasterChef is so known in countries like India, China, Malaysia, Singapore, all the Asian countries and Dubai, the UK, it's massive and I was doing a lot of work overseas. Travel was a massive part of my day-to-day activities. But now there are days where I just chillout and dont do anything and annoy my boyfriend who is working. But I would say that generally every day is about giving and sharing, you know, being constant, sharing my day with everyone. If I go for a run, I'll say hey I went for a run and I'm going to eat something afterwards and I think you should too, kind of thing.

What do you think have been your greatest successes over the last four years and the greatest challenges?…I guess it depends on how you define success.

I think the greatest success for me is to give everything a really good hot go. For example, the dumplings that we stock in Woolworths, the manufacturer is Golden Wok and they make the dumplings and I am the face of it, I promote it, I endorse the brand and come up with the recipes. That wouldn't have come about if I hadn't met them at a charity event and started talking about dumplings randomly. Last year we made $21 million in sales of dumplings. It is the highest selling item in the freezer section in Coles and Woolies in that category. That would be one of my greatest successes, although it is not fully mine, I am a part of it, but I think that it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't given it a go at the start.

Then there are the tv shows. I never thought I was going to be a media person, to be perfectly honest. I never thought I would be fine and comfortable in front of a camera. Yes MasterChef kickstarted that whole thing and after you have had five cameras shoved in your face in the first five weeks, you kind of get used to it. I think the main thing for me is that I want to share what I know in whatever capacity, whether that is owning a restaurant or writing a book, or talking about food on a podcast or whatever. TV was always one of them because it is such a good way to show people and get a good reach through shows. Management and I came up with a concept called Asia Unplated, which has run for two seasons on SBS Food and has been shown overseas. I think that's great. It is all about Asian food and Asia is the largest continent in the world and there are so many different cuisines that fall under it, so why not explore that region. I'm not saying that I am an expert in all Asian cuisines and that's where we get guests in to share their knowledge of that particular cuisine and where it came from. I think those are probably my two proudest achievements.

There is a lot I do that I don't talk about in public, like a lot of government work we do. We have cooked for really coolwell, cool people, but also people like diplomats and ministers and I have done a lot of travel overseas for work which is one of my favourite things to do.

What an amazing about turn. You would never have imagined before you entered that this is what your life would look like.

No, and then now I am thinking about launching a new homeware brand. This came about through Covid because I was thinking about how much I like entertaining; having people come over and making them feel so welcomed in the house and creating that atmosphere, not just the food, but making them feel comfortable, pouring their drinks and making them feel like it is a treat to come to your house. From there, I built a brand which I will launch as soon as I am able to, and it is all homeware which hopefully will expand. But that is giving it a go as well. Maybe if I speak to you in a year's time, it will have been successful and I can put that on the list.

Well done. As a last question, do you think that anyone can be a good cook or chef?

Yes, I think so. 100%. It comes from that saying that practice makes perfect. It is the same for teaching yourself to sing. I am not a good singer, but if I taught myself, I probably could. You can teach yourself anything; it is whether or not you really want to do it. A lot of it comes from understanding the basics. Go back to the basics. Before you take that leap, its baby steps. You have to learn the fundamentals of everything, as in anything: business, music. You have to know the basics, but I think anyone can be a great cook if they are willing to do that.

https://dianachan.co

@diana.chan.au