Diego Cardenas

Hi Diego, how's your day been?

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We were just trying something with squid ink, making something like a crisp. It was really black, so all my teeth went black, and I was like, no, I have this interview. So I've been just trying to wash my mouth.

Wow, the price you pay for being inventive. That's hilarious. Thanks for your time because obviously you're really busy experimenting with squid ink and other things. That opening was wild.

It was wild. It was super busy.

It was so good. It was fun from the moment we walked in with the music and everyone was dressed up and it was so great. The food was delicious. And then I was nice sitting down the end, sort of near, near the end and having a chat to the chefs which I loved.

You saw how everything.

I did.

It was quite busy.

It was really busy. How many people were there?

I think almost 200.

And so ever since then it's just been 'on'?

Every day has been busy. Tonight we have almost 80, 90 bookings and we are going to get a lot of walk-ins. It's been hectic. Last Saturday we did 200 something.

Wow, okay. Because the weather's not really Latin American type weather. But maybe that's what you're creating; a little escape.

That's idea.

So now tell me, a pincho, that's a skewer, is that right?

Yes, it means skewer. But in Peru they call it anticucho. That's why we have that on the menu. So we have pinchos and anticuchos, which are exactly the same. But you are in Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, those countries, they call it pincho. But if you're in Peru, you have to call it a skewer, because pincho means something totally different in Peru.

Okay. Right. Is it usually made with a particular kind of meat? Or any meat?

Any meat. It's a skewer. What we do over here, we use a Peruvian marinade, which is some cumin, some oregano, vinegar, and we use the marinade to do all our skewers. Then we have some options: prawns, meat, we're having octopus tonight.

Amazing. And is that cooked over the coals?

Yes. Cooked over the coals.

Delicious. And so, apart from the skewers, I ate a lot of amazing food last week, what else is on the menu or what's the approach you'd like people to have when they come to Pincho Disco? What would you like people to do?

Just come to try a little bit of our food. We have plates all the way from Mexico and we have things from Argentina and we have things in between those countries. There are a couple of things from Colombia, a couple things from Venezuela, some Brazilian stuff. Its a little bit of everything. When you come here, you get to try everything. You try a little bit of our culture. You will see a lot of colour, a lot of citrus, sweet, spicy, all of that. You get to try everything.

I had a lovely ceviche.

Ceviche plays an important part in our menu. We have one part of the menu, which is called Ceviche, Crudos, Aguachiles. Obviously ceviche is from Peru, and a little bit from Colombia as well. Then we have Aguachiles, which is the Mexican word for Ceviche. And then we have Crudos, which is basically raw fish. We have, I think, nine on the menu. So you get to try different seafood with different sauces.

Right. I definitely have to come back, don't I? There's a lot going on. It's a really big kitchen.

It IS a big kitchen. Tonight we have 13 people in the kitchen.

That feels like a luxury in this day and age. Is it?

Exactly. But that allows us to do a lot of things that we want to do. We are very careful with all the prep and the quality of the meat and how we clean and slice the fish. So we have plenty of staff and plenty of time to do it. That's important. Jake Furst is the culinary director and he always focuses on quality of food. That's what we're trying to do over here. That's been really important. We have the right staff to do good quality food.

Have you been head chef before?

Yes I was at Saxon, which is a hotel in Brisbane. Before that I was in Copycat in Elsternwick. Which is a wine bar, gastro pub.

Did you open those places or were those places already in existence when you joined?

I was part of the team who opened Copycat. Obviously we have the executive chief over there as well and then a head chef and, but I was part of that. So basically I knew how an opening goes. During my career I have been in many restaurants and I have opened a few of them. I basically knew what to do over here. It has been fun. It's easier when you go to a restaurant where everything is done, all the systems are in place and everything. But when you come to a new restaurant, no one knows anything. So even the guys in the kitchen, they have been asking me, Hey, where should I put this bottle? I ask them, where do you think it should go, I think it should go here. Perfect.

What's your style of leadership? For example, when you're doing menu creation, I imagine that you worked with Jake on the menu, and then to feed that through to your team, how do you get them all on board and invested in the menu?

When I came on board this project, it was maybe two months ago. Not a long time ago.When I came here, Jake told me about the project and the kind of food they wanted to do here. I believe they have been doing tastings for the last six months. So when I came here, they told me the dishes they wanted on the menu, but they needed some help with the flavour profile. We just sat down and worked on it; Craig the owner and Jake and I. And then they said, let's do it. It seems like you know what you're doing. We love all the favours and colours. That's what we're looking for. From there, I started building a team. I started calling friends that I have worked with and calling people that I know everywhere. We basically built a team from scratch. Most of them in the kitchen right now have worked with me previously. They know the kind of chef that I am and they know they play an important role in the business. Everyone is welcome to give an opinion of what we can do to make it better. At the end of the day, a successful chef is not successful by himself. He's successful because of the team they have. They can have an open conversation with myself and also with Jake, we're more than open to do whatever they want to do. There are no egos in this kitchen, which is really important.

That is really important. How often will the menu change?

The next change will be in February. Well have some seasonal stuff. We will have a new ceviche, new flavours. And also the meat; different kinds of cuts.

You are covering a few different countries and with your Colombian background, you have a lot of experience with food from that side of the world. What are your thoughts on authenticity when you're producing food from another culture? Is the food here adapted to Melbourne taste?

A hundred per cent. We can get a lot of the ingredients over here, but they're not exactly a hundred per cent the same. Let's say the Amarillo chilli paste, which is a Peruvian chili. We get the paste over here, but we don't get them fresh, so there is a difference in the taste. We have adapted all that. Also the food we have at Pincho is not as spicy as it should because, we're in Melbourne, so we should do it that way. We have tried to do a menu where everyone feels comfortable enough. If someone is from Latin America, they come here, they will say, oh, these taste like somewhere else. I miss those flavours. That's what we are trying to achieve; for Latin Americans, we're trying to remind them of the flavour that they miss from home, so they don't feel so far away. Then to whoever is not from Latin America, they come here and its fun. It's spicy, but not too spicy. It has acidity, but it's not too acidic. That's what we are trying to do. Its for Melbourne people.

The same dish can taste different in different parts of the world, as you say, with different ingredients and different ways of doing things. I like to think that that doesn't detract from the authenticity of the dish because dishes come about because of different products being available, even in the country of origin. Probably the way some of those dishes were invented or were created happened because that's what they had on hand. I quite like that evolution of food as well.

A hundred per cent. And we don't have the time here that my grandma used to have. She used to spend hours in the kitchen, of course doing something for my grandpa. We are trying to do those recipes, but in a faster way. They used to prep for many days. So that's a difference.

As you say, back in the day, people had ways of doing things and they'd take time and they'd know that on Thursday they'd start getting ready for the Sunday meal or whatever it was. I quite like that. It's nice, isn't it? But you probably have similar systems in your commercial kitchen.

We do. We just apply new techniques to those flavours to replicate all of that. But obviously there is going to be a difference.

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Where did it all start for you? Did you always know you wanted to be a chef?

I think I always knew it. During my childhood I grew up in a hardworking family, middle class in Colombia. My dad used to work for a petrol company. And my mum used to be a teacher. She used to be a good cook and she had a lot of patience with me and my brother. I think I learned a lot of things from her. But then she became sick over the years, so her health wasn't the best. So then I used to spend a lot of time with my grandparents. When I was on holiday, I'd either go with my grandparents from my father's side or my mother's side. And over there all you used to do was cooking. My grandparents from my father's side, are from Central Colombia so I used to make tamales, which is food wrapped in banana leaves and then arepas. But then on my mother's side, they're from the coast, so I used to cook fish, seafood. That's how I fell in love with food, cooking with them, spending time with them. That's all I used to do. When I grew up, I knew I wanted to be a chef, but 20 years ago, being a chef wasn't a main thing in Colombia. It was a thing that a few people did, but it wasn't a big thing in Colombia. It wasn't professional at all. So when I told my parents that I wanted to be a chef, they just told me, I think you should do something different, like an engineer or a lawyer or a doctor, but something different, not just a cook. I started study studying to be a mechanical engineer because I was really good at Mathematics.

But suddenly I got sick. I got cancer when I was 17. It was a big game changer for the world family. I had the surgery and everything and then, my parents said, there is only one life, so you have to do whatever you want to do. You want to be a chef, then be a chef, you just need to be happy. That's how we understood that if I wanted to be a chef then I should and that's what I did. I started culinary studies, but in Colombia and then when I finished all that, I told my parents that I wanted to move to Peru. So I moved to Peru and I spent a few time over there studying Peruvian cuisine and then working in Peruvian restaurants. After a few years over there, it was time to move. And then I moved to Spain. I always loved seafood. So I was always following all of that; Peruvian food, Mediterranean food in Spain. I went to Seville and I studied a degree in Mediterranean cuisine. As part of the course, they gave you the option to choose where you wanted to do your apprenticeship. I chose one in Madrid, which has a lot of seafood, a lot of paella, a lot of fresh meat. And then I chose another restaurant which was Casa Marcial, which was a two Michelin star restaurant.

Was it a shock to be Michelin star restaurant? Was it quite different or did it just feel like the natural next step?

It just felt natural. I knew that I wanted to be part of them. I worked hard to do that. I didn't feel like, oh, what am I doing here. I knew I deserved to be there. My parents had worked hard enough for me to be here. So I just needed to do it. And I just did it. It just didn't feel weird at all.

How long was the apprenticeship?

The one in Madrid was roughly eight months. And the other one was another eight months roughly.

Is it the same over there as I hear stories from other parts of the world where you start picking herbs or shucking oysters all day.

Peeling broad beans. That's what I used to do. I remember my first job in Casa Marcial was peeling broad beans in a cold room because you need to be in a cold room to do that over there. So it was freezing. I peeled broad beans 12 hours a day. Then I'd wake up again at three, four in the morning to go to the forest to get some mushrooms for the menu at lunch. It was crazy.

Wow. I imagine by the 12th hour in a cold room peeling broad beans, you could be forgiven for thinking, have I made the right decision? But did you ever doubt your decision to become a chef?

No, because I knew one day I was going to be part of the team that was at the front. I knew that was something that I had to do. So I did it and then it was rewarded. One day I was part of the team at the front and then I was cooking for customers. I felt that that was the right way to do it. You need to start from the bottom.

And I guess being really intimately connected to the food that's being cooked and being really aware of all the different parts coming together. I think that's what's really amazing to me, that as chefs, you do spend time on those different sections of the kitchen and that way you really understand how youve got to work together and how it all does come together. I really love that. Do you have a favourite section?

I think larder. That's not common in chefs, but I just love to work with fresh food. Fresh fish, fried bits, everything fresh, fresh vegetables. I just love that.

And I really love that mise en place idea as well. I love that great preparation and then you're just ready to go.

Everything has to be in place. You have to be ready. Because customers are not going to wait. We need to be ready before they come.

How do you deal with those stressful situations of so many orders being up and it's hot and you've got lots of people you're in charge of?

I think I don't feel stressed any more. I have done it enough. I mean, obviously sometimes I feel anxious about what's coming, but then I have a team that's supporting me and they're expecting the best of me. I cannot transmit those things to them. What I try to do is to be as calm as possible. So then they are calm as well. I cannot lose my mind and that's who I am. Over the years, I can feel that I'm getting more tired, I don't feel my body the same way that I used to feel it when I was 20, 25. But I have worked on development, time management, the leadership skills, all those things that are also important as chef. I just try to do my best every day. I come here, show them the best face that I have and then that's what we do over here. We're just trying to build a team of good people, not a team of good chefs because anyone can cook well. My mum used to cook really well. My grandma used to cook really well, but none of them was a chef.I think nowadays it's really important to be a good person. We spend 50, 40, 60 hours a week together, so we are family. So it's more important to have good people rather than good chefs. That's my point of view.

I like that. And what brought you to Melbourne?

Oh, that's a long story. I followed someone. We broke up during Covid because it was hard for everyone. Unfortunately, she decided to go back to Colombia and then I decided to stay. We knew that you have to do what you have to do. She made her decision and then I stayed over here.

What do you like about Melbourne? Not the weather at the moment obviously.

I think it's the freedom that you can be whoever you want to be. I think that's the most important thing in Melbourne. You can be whatever you want to be and you are never told to decide what you want to be in life. I'm lucky enough to do what I have always loved, but not many people have that opportunity. But I think in Melbourne, it's a place for everyone. You can be whatever you want to be.

I feel that as well. I came over from New Zealand in 2011 and it's a lot bigger over here than in New Zealand, but it felt like a lot of doors suddenly opened and there were all these possibilities. It was really exciting.

For things that you could never imagine. And suddenly you are doing interviews, you have your podcast, you have everything. I'm sure you never were expecting this.

I did not. And how lucky am I?

That's how Melbourne is for everyone.

That's a good observation. I like that. And so with, with all your experience in mind opening new places and this exciting new place, what would your advice be to a young person starting out as a chef?

It's a hard job, but it's going to be rewarded. So don't lose your patience. Work hard enough, have a mentor, which is important in life and also in a kitchen. Follow your guts, work hard enough and then you will be rewarded a hundred per cent.

Pincho Disco, 59 Cambridge Street, Collingwood