Ian Ho

Conversation with a chef: Hi Ian. Nice to meet you. We’re in Añada, which is Spanish, and you’ve got your apron on. Does that mean that you’re mainly cooking here, even though you’re the executive chef of several venues?

Ian Ho: Yes, I do a bit of everything, really; executive chef, kitchen hand and everything in between. Basically, I just do whatever we need. There are three venues, and they used to be separate venues. The owners got me into to see how we can do everything under one, if that makes sense, so there’s a lot of figuring out at the moment. Everyone’s got staffing problems at the moment. Good staff are hard to come by, they come and go. I’m really trying to build the teams up. My main focus at the start was to bring the food costs down…the really exciting part of cooking! I used to work with Tony Twitchett, and I used to ask him every once in a while, which hat do you have on today? Do you have your chef’s hat, or do you have your GM hat or your Mr. Fixit hat because he does everything. I think it’s a little bit like that for me at the moment. The main thing is trying to prioritise what needs to be done, because there’s a billion things to be done.

What are the three venues?

Añada, Arcadia Cafe and The Rochey Hotel.

They are three quite different venues to all come under the same umbrella. You’ve got Spanish and then a cafe and then a pub.

Yes. I’m not short on work. I get to do breakfast and dinners and lunches.

You were at Taxi Kitchen before here?

Yes, just prior to this, with Tony Twitchett.

I’ve spoken to Tony. He’s amazing. As you say, he has lots of different hats and he wears them all well.

Yes, he’s such a mainstay over there. He’s also an owner over there. So, he’s got his work cut out for him.

Were you ready for the next challenge? Is that why you’ve taken on this role?

Yes, I was ready for the next challenge and there’s a head chef and an executive chef over there, and I was the senior sous chef, and I guess I was running day to day things for the three venues there as well, but there was some sort of structure there. I came in and I helped that structure along and the bones were there. They’ve run it for so long. I just was there to make it better and run the day to day jobs really.

So, you brought that knowledge with you here?

Exactly. I thought it was a good sort of a good transition because I’ve done multiple venues over there and how do I translate that into three venues again, but completely different venues. We have to put systems in place and all that sort of stuff.

How does that work? Because when you’re new and you come in and there’s already staff here, is the first step to get along with the staff or is the first step more processes and then explaining that to staff? How does it work when you’re new and you’re the boss?

That’s a really good question. Everyone has their own way of doing things. The way that I found works for me is I see who we have, and I work around them and obviously I put the systems in place that I want to do. But you have to be flexible. No one really knows your system. So you’ve got to introduce that slowly and again, it’s about prioritising. People are the most difficult part of the job, really. You can’t come in and be a hard man and just piss everyone off or you’ll be left with nothing because at the end of the day it’s the team that gets you through. You have to understand that gone are the days where you have 100 chefs lining up to work and all of them are skilled and all of them willing to work. You have to be smart about things.

I actually prefer sometimes to be constricted. Because that’s when real creativity comes up. If someone says to me, do whatever you want, buy anything you want, the sky is the limit, I actually feel lost. It’s fun to go with what you’ve got and within these limits.

Ian Ho, Añada, Arcadia Café, The Rochey

When it comes to menus, when you came in, did you change menus or do you sit with them as they are for a while and then see how what you can tweak?

At Añada, I changed the menu almost immediately. I kept the things that I like. I used the base of the things. For example, the lamb pintxos. I’ve kept the skewer itself, the lamb, but I’ve just changed the garnishes around. It is something that suits me. The last chef had his style and there’s no real point in me trying to learn the other chef’s style and trying to implement that and get it right, because I’ll probably do a rubbish job with it. So, I’ve changed the menu, also according to the staff that I have and the skill level that I have. It’s not so

Had you had much experience with Spanish or Mediterranean food before?

Spanish food specifically, not really, but Mediterranean flavours, I love it. It’s so different to what I was used to that I really looked into it and at Copycat where I used to work, it was predominantly Mediterranean flavours, so I tried to put those sort of flavours in because they really excited me. We market Añada as a southern Spanish restaurant, so there are a lot of Mediterranean flavours coming from there, and Moorish flavours and spices, so it’s not so pigeonholed.

Great. Today’s Wednesday, and I’m looking at ‘Date night set menu’. Does that show off the kind of food that you’re offering on the menu? Or is it food that you don’t spill down yourself and look good eating on a date?

It’s a lightish menu, but comfort food at the same time because you get paella as the main. Seafood paella on a cold winter’s day is really nice and comforting. You start with bread, croquettes, a little bit of padron peppers, to spice up your life a little bit.

There’s no talk after that.

Then you get a bit of a soft chocolate at the end. A nice date night chocolate.

That’s cute. I like that. It’s a encouragement for people to have date nights.

Especially because it’s a really good price point as well.

That’s what I wanted to get back to: food costs. Are you a spreadsheet guy?

Unfortunately. I do enjoy a good spreadsheet. I’m very nerdy.

I spoke to someone recently and we were talking about how when you start out as a chef, you’re all about wanting to be creative and make great food and make people happy through your food. And then when you get to sous chef or senior sous or head chef and then executive chef, it has to be about the numbers as well as all the other stuff. Where do you start with putting on these delicious meals, but reaching your food costs?

The way I look at it is we’ve got a menu, there’s a structure: you want to have a braise, you want to have chicken, some sort of beef, and then you go from there and see what’s available. Let’s say beef. The last chef had short rib on, and it was so costly. So I put brisket on. That’s how I go about it. You have to get to know how to use the off cuts. The trim of the beef, I’ve put it into a croquette as a special, for example, basic things that chefs do. But I think a lot of people don’t. It’s getting lost a little bit sometimes these days. Not everyone has that skill to make the off cuts shine.

And you have to build the wastage into the cost as well as the. There’s a lot going on, isn’t there? It’s not just, I’ve bought the food for this much and I’ll just whack on a bit of extra money.

At this point, I find it really interesting. I actually prefer sometimes to be constricted. Because that’s when real creativity comes up. If someone says to me, do whatever you want, buy anything you want, the sky is the limit, I actually feel lost. It’s fun to go with what you’ve got and within these limits. You do have to have that skill to be able to run with a surprise because it might not just be cooking, any day a surprise might happen. Yesterday, one of my staff didn’t show up after his break, because he actually got hit by a car. He’s fine now for a car crash, he’s actually come out alright, he’s just got concussion. But things like that happen all the time.

I think chefs and front of house people, hospitality people are probably the best problem solvers out there because it happens so fast and it happens in front of people as well and still have the show has to go on.

That’s the perfect way to describe it. The show has to go on. There are so many things to deal with and that’s the pain and the fun of it as well at the same time.

I think there’s a satisfaction in hard work. I’ve always enjoyed cooking. Mum used to put me in the middle of the floor with newspapers around me and put a bunch of whole garlic there and I was 10 years old peeling the garlic as a fun job. I was very used to being in the kitchen.

Ian Ho, Añada, Arcadia Cafe, The Rochey

I feel like you must be thinking about it 24/7, are you?

Yes. Recently I was on annual leave for a couple weeks. and I was in Europe. We had a couple of Visa staffing issues when someone had to leave, so I was actually trying to hire staff while away as well. You’re trying to organise things like that. You can’t actually switch off. You get phone calls from suppliers or people can’t come in and they just text me. Not everyone’s super aware. So I’m getting a phone call or a text message at 3am. over there saying, oh, I can’t come to work today. That’s across three venues as well.

How many staff are you overseeing?

It’s not too many. About 15, 16, because they’re all really small venues. At Taxi there were probably around 36. So staffing wise, the numbers aren’t big, they are such separate venues and you got to sift through things and then reset new structures in there. It’s a big challenge. You just have to take it step by step and prioritise. You can’t ever finish your work, ever. You have to prioritise the top five things that need to be done and then you go from there.

Where did it all start for you? Did you always know you wanted to be a chef?

No, I actually wanted to be a firefighter. I’m Malaysian. There was a fire station next to my house and all I saw them doing was play sport. That was my dream. I just wanted to play. That was what I wanted to do as a child.

Well, you’re putting out metaphorical fires when you’re in hospo, aren’t you? So then when did this idea come about to be a chef?

I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I finished school. It was the first year in Malaysia that we actually had this thing called hotel apprenticeship scheme. You get paid a small amount of money to study and then you work at a hotel as well. And then you’re tied to the hotel for a year. It was a government hotel scheme that they put together for guaranteed cheap labour, basically. Since it was free or I didn’t have to fork out any cash for it, I went for it. I gave it a try. It was really fun, but also really difficult at first and I did want to give up in the first week. But I thought I would stick it out and see how it goes. It was a three-hour journey from my home, back and fort. daily. And for someone who’s never worked in the kitchen before, you go there and you do the worst jobs possible, because you’re at the lowest level. But it was a character building.

Was that in a hotel? I imagine it does start off pretty hard in those situations, and maybe you are quite anonymous because there must be lots of staff there?

It was a four-star boutique hotel. So we did have quite a lot of staff. In Asia, there’s usually more staff than Australia, I would say. But it was it was interesting, the stuff that we did every day. I never did any cooking, to be honest. It was just lugging stuff around, putting stuff away, cleaning the cool rooms, 50 kilo bags of potatoes that you’re turning. And the funniest thing was, always at the end of the shift there would be a five kilo block of cheddar cheese that you’ got a grate by hand. Thinking about it now, it just seems so ridiculous. Why wouldn’t you just buy grated cheese?

That’s a lot of cheese.

It was for the hotel buffet breakfast, so lots of omelettes.

How long were you there?

Three months. Then I just thought I’ll come to Australia and try to try it out. I really wanted to try doing Western cooking and learn something. I came to Melbourne.

Did you do an apprenticeship here?

No, I had had to study full time.. Because as a non-Australian, I don’t think you can do An apprenticeship.

Oh, okay. So William Angliss?

Yes, William Angliss.

So even though it was hard, what made you continue with it?

I got good at it. And I thought some of the chefs there liked me, they wanted me on board after my studies. They told me I was doing a really good job, and I think there’s a satisfaction in hard work. I’ve always enjoyed cooking. Mum used to put me in the middle of the floor with newspapers around me and put a bunch of whole garlic there and I was 10 years old peeling the garlic as a fun job. I was very used to being in the kitchen. Dad loves to cook, but the only thing was that he usually cooks such huge batches that you have to eat the same thing for one week. Mum never really liked cooking, I don’t think she likes cooking now still, but she always had the discipline to put good food on the table We always had a protein vegetable, rice,  and soup as well. We were very lucky, me and my brother. As a family, we would sit down and always have a proper meal, usually.

I’ve just heard that rice has become incredibly expensive, particularly in Japan, so it’s proven quite challenging for people that rely on rice so much.

Well, I can tell you paella rice is pretty expensive.

I still don’t know between the rush of service or the creativity of cooking, which one I like more. I like service; busy services, you get through it with your team and you do a really good job. There’s very little else that beats that sometimes.Quote goes here

Ian Ho, Añada, Arcadia Café, The Rochey

When you first came here, you were studying and then what was the first place you worked in?

The very first place I worked in was a place in the city, they used to have an underground kitchen. It was right on the corner of Swanston and Little Collins. The boss of the cafe was this Czech guy and there were a few backpackers working as well, the pizza guys and it was a bit loose. We used to smoke and drink in the kitchen while doing a pasta and stuff like that.

Wow. Underground in many senses.

Yes. No one could see what was happening. The boss has since passed away. Okay. The venue is not there anymore. That was my first introduction to a kitchen in Australia in Melbourne. It was very fun. I was getting paid $10 an hour cash and I thought, oh, man, I am rich. This is amazing. Coming from a place where I used to get a $1.50 an hour. I guess my first really good job was a place called Lamaro’s in South Melbourne owned by Pamela Lamaro and Michael Lambie back then. Michael Lambie was the executive chef of Taxi Kitchen. When they had Lamaro’s, they had two hats, he brought some of the staff over and they opened Lamaro’s. Brad Simpson, ** Adams. I worked with Brad for a while.

That’s a great place to have been in.

We used to say, it’s like Taxi, because there were a lot of Taxi dishes on there, but not the full scope of things. The processes, the Taxi duck that is on now, it’s been there for 20 years. I used to do that as well at Lamaro’s. It was a bistro/pub. There was the pub food and the bistro food.

What’s your favourite style of food to cook?

I really like Mediterranean, Middle Eastern flavours. That’s what I like doing in my free time. But I really like everything, to be honest. I have books on almost every cuisine. Not that I’ve read them all. I just look at the pictures, and ger inspired. If I feel like a certain cuisine or I buy a veggie box, because they’re better value for money, I might get a really weird vegetable, let’s just say, kohlrabi. Okay, what do I do with Kohlrabi? Do I want to go Japanese and maybe I’ll open a book up and look at what do they do with it. That’s how I use the books really. You go through the index. So, I have an interest in all sort of cuisines, I think.

I love that, and I love that you are still challenging yourself outside of work time as well. It speaks to the passion that’s perhaps kept you in it throughout all the problem solving and the challenging times.

I still don’t know between the rush of service or the creativity of cooking, which one I like more. I like service; busy services, you get through it with your team and you do a really good job. There’s very little else that beats that sometimes.

As a final question, what would your advice be to a young person starting out as a chef?

I think for me, ask questions. A lot of chefs, because we are so time poor and I just want you to do it the way I want it done. And sometimes young chefs get into a spot where they just do what they’re told, but they don’t ask questions like, why is it like that? Or even if you don’t ask those questions, you want to know what the reasoning is. Then you have the base of fixing things or understanding how things work rather than just, oh, I’m just doing this because I’ve been told to do it like that. I think that’s the main thing. Keep your mind open in that way, and then that’s the basis for a lot more information coming in, especially these days when you don’t have as much time. I used to work 70 hours a week. So did a lot of chefs. But that repetition allows you to figure things out. And sometimes 38 hours these days, you just don’t get that time with the food or in the kitchen that you can figure it out faster.

I’m hearing that quite a lot lately and it’s such a tricky one, isn’t it? Because people don’t want to work more than they have to, but to learn and to really grow in that skill and all that kind of thing you, it does need time.

It’s one of those things that you really do need that practice. You do need put those hours in. Maybe by yourself at home. A few chefs we used to work with, or kids that come in and say they want to learn. Some of them come in their own time. I think that’s the way to go, not come in in your own time to work, but more specifically, oh, I want to learn how to do this. If I’m cutting the fish up tomorrow, you can come in your own time, and I’ll show you how to do it and then you can do it another day. I can’t have you here on company time doing this for three hours. It’s a bit tricky. It’s something you have to juggle and it depends on themselves if they want to do it or not. The thing I can do as a chef is to give them the option. And the ones who really want to know appreciate it.

Anada, 197 Gertrude Street, Fitzroy

Arcadia Café, 193 Gertrude Street, Fitzroy

The Rochester Hotel, 202 Johnston Street, Fitzroy