Joe Vargetto

Hi Joe, nice to meet you.

Thank you for coming in.

I actually didn't realise that you only just re-opened on Monday, so it is probably really bad timing on my part. You must be so busy. How was the first Friday lunch back?

It was pretty big. I think I underestimated the love of this restaurant. This restaurant has been open six years and one of those years it was closed. We closed on the 27thMarch last year and we didn't reopen until last week, so we did a few little functions leading up just to clean everything and get it all in order and check the gas lines. There wasn't that much to do because we left it in a really good state. I tested the waters and asked a few people around here and especially the barber who said it was fantastic we were opening because a lot of people had been asking. There was no real use opening at the start of the year because it was just after Christmas and the people who had come into the city had vanished on holidays into regional areas. Leading up to Christmas, a lot of people were still not coming into the city. They were just enjoying their time in the suburbs. At my other restaurant in Kew, we created a really big following because we opened right through and delivered food to the people in the local area. It's like they are pushing people to come back into the city, so some people will come in and they'll be asked how it was and then more people will come in. I came into the city in August in the middle of the lockdown and I swear I only saw four people and those people were the ones that got off the trams and cleaned the poles.

I guess too with people only just coming back into the offices, you wouldn't have had a Friday lunch like this a few months ago.

I think they've actually missed it. I think people enjoyed the home life and became a bit reclusive, but I think now they want to see other people. I see how some have lost the ability to socialise and how even though we don't have to observe all the social distancing, some are still avoiding contact. I've seen the whole human condition; how some have tried to help others, some have abused the system, others have taken advantage of others and tried to make a profit and tried to buy things when others have been down on their luck. I was still very active because of Mister Bianco and I've seen the whole of what I call the human condition. I don't know if that's the term.

Yes. It's fascinating and frightening. Just to talk about you in terms of hospitality, I wanted to say congratulations on your cookbook. It's beautiful; the whole look of it is sleek. And 240 pages! That's a big book. Did it take you a long time to put it all together?

It has taken me, I think, probably 16 years. Not 16 years actually doing it. I was asked to do a book about 16 years ago. I kind of thought, if I'm going to write a book, it needs to be something that is of worth and it needs to be something I'm proud of, a legacy. Especially the first book. The first one needs to be telling a story and not just a story of my cooking but trying to bring people together. I had the chance to do it a couple of times but I never really wanted to do those ones. If you want to make spaghetti bolognese, you can get on Google. But the book is really kind of me; the sleek black outside is basically what I wear all the time. I just wear black all the time. The designer spent a few weeks with me and we were going down the path of a cover with a few acknowledgements and then he came in with this black thing and we went from there. It was a bit of a punt from the publisher as well, but he came around. It has been selling really well.

Yes, I saw you've done a second print run.

Yes. It's not a huge print run. We're talking 10 000, others are bigger.

It looks like one of those lovely journals and I wondered if that's how you keep your notes and ideas.

I wanted to have something that people can hold and that they want to put in the kitchen or have on the table.

It's beautiful and Siciliano is obviously you and your heritage.

Yes. What it's about is basically my parents came over here in 1956 and the story is about not just them, but the story of Austrlia, how back then you couldn't get anything that was remotely Italian. It's a two-pronged effect; the story of them becoming Australian but the story about Australia becoming more multi-cultural, the melding of these two and three, four, five, eight different cultures all melding together in Australia. Now you can get anything Italian and now my clientele really want the next step of Italian cookery; they really want to understand the regions of Italy and know where things are really from, not just, oh it's Italian.

What are the key elements of Sicilian cooking?

The key elements are spontaneity. The second is exquisite produce that's grown in small batches and each of that produce has its own style, and the next is basically understanding the season and the vibe of the food as well. It's very important when you're cooking the food, you want to be excited about cooking it and not something you want to learn and once you've learned it, you put it aside and the second time you come back to it, you have to relearn it. Its important to learn the process so that you can transfer that to other dishes and take the flavours and create your personalised elements. Then you have a simple but very delicious repertoire.

As a New Zealander with English and Scottish heritage, I always imagine that with an Italian or Sicilian heritage that your childhood was filled with food and cooking. Can you tell me a bit about what it was like growing up?

Good question. I grew up in an area that wasn't Italian. It was Scottish, English. Our next-door neighbours were Janet and Jim Ferguson, Scottish from Edinburgh and the other neighbours were English. So we were slap bang in an area where, number one, Mum couldn't get very much produce and number two, it was also a time where a lot of the Italians were in the media for all the wrong reasons, organised crime. Mum used to have all these things like oregano and bits and pieces and Jim and Janet thought that us growing oregano, that it must be marijuana. We were doing a lot of stuff in the back yard, so all the pickling, salami and sausages, and passata. Everything was always in the backyard and it was a hive of activity. And we were growing vegetables. Jim and Janet would always look over the fence and ask what we were doing next, what's that? We'd be sun drying tomatoes on the roof of the garage. When I grew up, I didn't understand a supermarket. Mum would go to the supermarket maybe to get flour. But she would never go to the supermarket to get bread. She used to make her own bread. I would go to school with weird looking bread and get picked on because of that. There was never any Tip Top or any kind of sliced bread in our house. In essence, I grew up in an Anglo area and the food that I had was very alien, but then as we all grew up, they wanted what I was eating, and I wanted what they were eating.

You didn't initially think you'd be a chef, and started a commerce degree, is that right?

I went to university and I was good at it, but I was really bored. I didn't know this philosophy at the time, but if you do something you really enjoy, you'll be good at it. If you're doing something you really don't enjoy, you'll force yourself to go through with it, but eventually the thread is going to break, and you'll resent yourself or those around you. Work and artisanal craft and things that have relevance to you, make you happy. If you do something and people say it's good or they really enjoyed, it, that makes you happy. But if you do something and you hate doing it, even if people compliment you on it, it doesn't mean anything. I know a lot of my friends who got into law and accounting are great at it, but they hate it.

I think I have a strange mind. I'm very good at bookwork and studies but I'm also good at being creative, coming up with ideas, and really going for it, never relenting. My thirst for results has never wavered. Maybe it's the mix of all these things.

I was going to ask you what it was about becoming a chef that really appealed to you and I guess it's all those things; the creativity and the fact that you are constantly learning. You have received great accolades with the Bocuse d'Or and having two restaurants that are very well spoken of and you seem very calm. I've seen photos of you with your bike and so obviously wellbeing is part of your life as well.

I'm not always calm. I like the fast lane. Sitting down for me is calm. I like doing many things at once. I think I'm very confident at what I do. It's not that I am being egotistical, but I have been doing this for 27 years since I was 19, 20. I have to say to myself, if people don't like it, there is probably a reason for it. If people do like it, continue the formula and enjoy what youre doing and have people around you that you like working with and enjoy being there. There is definitely a great team atmosphere here. I like coming to work. I think the bike gives me the element of, any second I could get hit by a car

Oh right. That's not what I was expecting, but ok it is true

You could get hit by a car and you're literally this far away from a truck. I've been hit a couple of times. One doctor even said, I don't even know how you are still here, Joe. Another secondif you were at the intersection a second or two seconds earlier, we would probably have to go downstairs to find your body in the hospital. I've had all those experiences and I enjoy being in the kitchen. I don't have to be here in the kitchen, but I like it. I like cutting and chopping and cooking. A lot of chefs don't want to be in the kitchen. They resent what they do and that's why they are angry. You lay your foundations when you are young and hopefully they blossom as you get older. Some of the sacrifices from your early life come to fruition.

And you travelled quite a lot and worked overseas when you were younger.

I did. And I worked with some of the greats. It wasn't easy working in some of those kitchens; it was like the military on steroids. Maybe that was it as well, having situations where every day you go to work and think, I have to do better; I have to challenge myself.

What I gleaned from looking through your Instagram is the people aspect of what you do. You have made some really great connections over the years and I like that you celebrate that. You celebrate your staff and there was a lovely photo of you with Philippe Mouchel giving him your book and I think hospitality is about those human connections.

It absolutely is. There's no doubt about it. When you come to someone's restaurant, you're actually coming into someone's extended dining room. You have to think, I'm yours for the evening and I would love to experience what you have, or you can go in and say, I want this, I want that, and youre probably not going to have a good time. Youre demanding something from an established restaurant that they are not ready to do because it is not in their repertoire. Yeah, they can cook you a well-done steak, but if that's not their thing, it is probably going to come off wrong. I always say if you go into someone's house, you don't go in and say your light could be different here and I don't like your couchsome restaurants are just there to make money and some are there to give a guest a beautiful time and there are some restaurants that staunchly do what they do and if you don't like it, you can go. I like to accommodate people.

Obviously you have a tried and true recipe for your restaurants. You spoke about spontaneity as an element of Sicilian cooking. How does that transpose to your menus? Are you changing them often?

You need to pay homage to your regular clientele but you need to change 30 per cent of the menu very often, but some things need to stay on all the time. If there is something you do very well, don't change it. Keep it on. People want to come here for that. If it's really good, they will keep coming over and over again for those dishes. But there are seasons as well and you need to incorporate elements which celebrate that. There are some things you can get all year round, but there are some things that you need to celebrate, like pine mushrooms are in season at the moment. You manipulate the menu to have all these heroes.

What would be your advice for any young people who were thinking about becoming a chef?

Great question. My advice would be that you have to first make the decision about whether you want to do this. If the answer is yes, then you have to give it 135 000 per cent, because, as in any industry, to get to the top, you need to work hard at it. You can't just get to the top by blagging your way there. In restaurants, judgement day is every day. Your guests come in and try the food, the ambiance, the service, the generosity. You can have a really good profile on Instagram but the real take is word of mouth and you cant buy word of mouth. You can get influencers to come in and talk and whatever but you are then having people come into your restaurant and if their experience is great, all good but if it's crap, it is even more detrimental, because bad news spreads faster than good news. My biggest advice is to focus on your craft, try to create a style, whether it is front of house or back of house, and pursue that relentlessly. Really give it a go; you can't go halfway and say you didn't like it because of that person or this person. Blame yourself, don't blame others but then blame yourself for good as well. Give yourself compliments. I wouldn't say, work hard every day and burn yourself out, but give yourself to your profession. If you can, great. Either you are going to work hard early in your career and get the fruits later on, or if you get to 40, 45 and wish you could have done things differently, it's too late.

Massi

445 Little Collins Street, Melbourne

Mister Bianco

285 High Street, Kew