Johnny Di Francesco

Hi Johnny. Its really great to chat to you again. I came in to 400 Gradi and did one of your pizza classes in 2014 and I was just looking back over my notes and the photos I took and its good to talk to you a few years later about how much has happened for you. First of all, well done, its really huge, isnt it?

Thank you.

I remember you telling us that you started making pizza when you were 12. What was the story behind that?

I got into making pizzas in a local pizza place because I wanted to buy a pair of sneakers.

Thats great. How do you go from making pizzas in a local pizza shop to then becoming the best pizza maker in the world?

A lot of hard work, I think. I started my first business when I was 19. I tell people that the first 10 years were my apprenticeship. There were ups but more downs so I learned a lot over those 10 years. I made a lot of mistakes and I was able to correct them and try again.

Learning the Napoletan style of making pizzas crossed my journey when I went over to Naples in 2009. I worked with some of the best pizza makers in the world there and learned the art of Napoletan pizza making. I then came back and introduced that into 400 Gradi and for the last 10 years, it has just been hard work and really staying true to the product.

Thats what I did when I went over to compete. All I did was make a basic Margherita, as people say, but it is known as one of the hardest pizzas in the world to produce. The reason I say that is because its a pizza where you cant hide behind any ingredients; its just the dough and if it hasnt been made correctly you can tell. The mozzarella and tomato they use on the pizza are high quality. I went over to Italy and did exactly the same as I do in my own shop and happened to take out the title.

Thats a very humble way of describing it, you just happened to take out the title. I think you would have been up against a lot of Italians who were also being true to the art of Napoletan pizzas so it is very impressive. What drew you to the Napoletan pizza in the first place? Were there other people doing it in Melbourne?

No one was doing these pizzas; I introduced them to Melbourne. The reason I did it was my father. He passed away in 2007 and I remember him always talking about Napoletan pizza. He was originally from Naples. Id been running these pizzarias for 10 years and I always heard him mention the pizza from Naples so I thought, you know what, Im going to take a trip to Naples and see why my dad was so passionate about Naples itself and the pizzss. As soon as I got to Naples, I understood.

Theres a joy that comes from appreciating quite simple ingredients used well as you mentioned, but what was it that you discovered in Naples?

Theres a big tradition and culture around the Napoletan pizza. When you talk about Naples, the first ting that pops into peoples heads is the pizza. Whats so special is and I always say to people, once you arrive in Naples, you can just feel the difference in the country that youre in. You may be in Italy but you are actually in Naples. I have friends from Italy who when people ask them if they are from Italy say no, they are from Naples. They have a very special attitude or tradition around what they believe Naples stands for. It is beautiful. I try and travel back to Naples at least once a year and every time I land in Naples, I think wow. Its as though I have never left. The people are so warm and welcoming. It is a very different culture.

But in asking why the pizza is so special, its part of their culture. Its what they are here for. There are two things Napoletans live for and thats pizza and soccer. [laughs]

Thats a big responsibility. I guess in a way when you are creating a hospitality experience and the food, there is a responsibility to convey some of those origins, that feeling to those eating it. Some of us in Melbourne might get it or do you have to have been to Naples to really understand? Can we eat your pizza and experience some of the joy as well?

Thats a good question. For the first two years I had people telling me that it wasnt pizza and they would pretty much walk out of the restaurant. But I stuck to my guns. All these other Napoletan restaurants that have opened up in Melbourne, I pretty much did the hard yards for them. At the beginning it was a struggle. People really didnt understand the product. It was through no fault of their own but they were accustomed to eating the traditional pizza we were making in Melbourne. So introducing this pizza thats soft and pliable and easy to digest with a different look to it; the corniccione, or crust, is nice and high and the rest of the pizza is thin and theres not a lot of topping on there because youre using the best ingredients you can find. The quality of them is so high that you dont need a lot of them to be satisfied. This was extremely difficult to make people embrace what we were making.

Thats when I thought Id start the pizza classes . That was the only reason I did it because getting up on a Saturday morning at 9am to start a class wasnt really on my agenda when Id been working until 2 or 3 in the morning. But it was a commitment I wanted to make to ensure that people would walk away really understanding why this pizza is special and why we were working the way we work and they would become my ambassadors out there. They would talk about Napoletan pizzas to their friends and then in the restaurant you could see the people who knew about the pizza and how to hold it and that you dont eat it with a knife and fork, you fold it and eat it that way. There was a movement of people who really understood what I was trying to do.

Then there were people who had just got back from Naples and had heard that I made a real Napoletan pizza and wanted to see if it was true or not. They would walk away saying, Unbelievable, its as though I have just been to a Napoletan restaurant. And Id say, well you have because thats what we do. Im so glad I stuck to my guns. Im glad to see there are so many other Napoletan pizzerias around now because I was part of that.

How does that translate into the Middle East?

You would be really surprised. If you ever go over to the Middle East, the people are very westernised and they really love Italian cuisine. When the locals heard we were opening a Napoletan pizzeria, there was a big hype around it because they wanted to come and try it. It has been an amazing success. They travel a lot. A lot of people from the Middle east go to Italy and they love pizza or Italian cuisine because they have had it there.

That side of it wasnt too difficult. The difficulty was in trying to replicate the product and have something exactly the same as we were putting out in Australia. It was such a long process finding which products we could import. We were very lucky because we managed to get such good quality products that if you eat over there, you would find that it is exactly the same as we have in Melbourne in my restaurant.

Thats fantastic. Was it always your intention from the outset to have world dominance, or is thats something that has happened along the way?

I have always owned multiple sites and I have loved seeing something grow and become something. I never would have thought that I would take this brand internationally. It was never on the cards. I had always dreamed of having something worldwide but I would never have thought it would be this brand that would do it. We are still learning from it.

Its on cruise liners too!

Yes we have done P & 0 which has been amazing. We are launching in Auckland at the end of this year and the really exciting one for me is that we will be setting up our first restaurant in the United States, in Texas, later this year.

Good for you. Your dad would be so proud. You have really taken the Napoletan pizza to the people.

It is amazing. I wish he was here because he was my biggest supporter and I would have loved for him to see it.

400 Gradi

99 Lygon Street, East Brunswick