I learned so much from chatting to Kirra. Actually, my mind was completely blown about 12 minutes into the conversation as Kirra patiently tried to explain Le Petit Chef interactive dining. But Kirra, herself, even without the fancy eating adventure that goes on upstairs from the wine cellar, is a super impressive chef, who soaked up everything she could in the kitchens of The Royal Mail and Lûmé and is now singlehandedly wrangling the kitchen at Cardigan Place Cellars. She is definitely a chef to watch.
Kirra, you’ve worked in some great restaurants. Was Lûmé the most recent one?
Yes, I was at Lûmé for two and a half years and before that I was at The Royal Mail, After I left Lûmé, I did casual work here and there. I did a few pop-ups, one at Messer, through PDR (Private Dining Room) Melbourne and they are a really cool group, very interactive.
They pop up on my Instagram and I keep thinking I must go to an event. They do really interesting dinners. It’s a real experience.
Definitely ad it’s really good for networking and getting other people to collaborate and try different styles. It works out to be a different cuisine or culture that gets recreated in the meal itself.
What did you do?
I worked with a girl from Adelaide, she also worked at a wine bar and I was casually working at Neighbourhood Wine then. She was very Asian-influenced and when I cook at home I love that inspiration. I did desserts to complement that, which was cool because I hadn’t done much pastry. It was a challenge for me as well.
What did you make?
I ended up making a dessert with a lot of Australian native ingredients; deadly nightshades, a caramelised yoghurt ice cream, quandong, mountain marigold, which is quite hard to find. I foraged most of the stuff for the dinner.
Where do you go? How do you know…well, you’re a chef and I guess you have books and so on…!
Working at the Royal Mail, I adapted to horticulture and being in an environment where things grow naturally, you pick up where things grow: along rivers or in bushes, if they are something like native asparagus. I find that side of things quite fun and it challenges you to create things outside the box.
I’ve spoken to chefs like Annie Smithers who grows most of the produce she uses, do you think having that connection to the land and provenance changes the way you cook?
Definitely. I grew up paddock to plate. Mum had a two acre vege patch and my pop had. a farm, so being young I took it for granted and when I moved out of home I wondered where all the good stuff was because I was so used to it. Things don’t taste the same which I guess is a bit disappointing, especially for me. That’s why here I like to try and utilise most things from the farm and things that are ethically sustainable, so no meat that has been processed wrongly, it has to be respected.
That must be a challenge in terms of food cost, but those things tend to cost more.
Yes. I have a range of vegetarian, seafood and meats, but there are only maybe two things on the menu that are mainly protein-based. I try and keep it friendly for vegans as well. It is on trend, especially in Melbourne. They should have a separate menu.
Queensland is the capital for vegans. It’s cool. Most people get scared of cooking vegan, but I don’t think it’s something to be scared of.
I think in the past it seemed to be quite challenging to make vegan food tasty and maybe because it was such a new thing and the ingredients weren’t there. I suppose you start the same way planning a vegan dish as you would any other dish; star with ingredients and work with that.
There was a particular restaurant in Queensland and I hate mock meat, it scares me, I don’t get it, it’s full of chemicals, but in this restaurant, everything was plant-based and they just did vegie and did it really well. That was in Miami on the Gold Coast. It was a pumping business and I thought, if this was in Melbourne, people would go crazy.
Did you grow up in Queensland?
No, I was just there.
So, growing up, did you always think you’d be a chef?
It sort of just happened. I did know I enjoyed food. But in Year 11 I came to Work Experience and I didn’t know what to do. I enjoyed cooking and I liked the idea of being in the water police. Two different tangents. I couldn’t find a way of working with the water police so I did my whole work experience at a restaurant. At the end of that, they asked me whether I wanted to work full time. I’d enjoyed my experience there but I didn’t want to leave HSC so I looked into it and thought it was what I wanted to do so I started school-based work and did it over four years and finished my apprenticeship in Melbourne.
Where was that?
I did it at a small Italian restaurant called Piccolo and I did a few other places here and there and then moved to Melbourne when I was 17. Best decision I have made. It was exciting and made me grow as a person. Those first years I was at the Royal Mail, learning horticulture as well as what was in the restaurant really gave me a ground level for where I’m at today. It helps me understand seasonality and things like that.
What a great start.
Absolutely. It was beautiful out there and there was so much to learn.
Working somewhere like Lûmé…I’ve had a conversation with Shaun…it is so different there. You must have learned a lot there as well.
I learned so much. When I started at Lûmé, I took a step back from the position I had been in because Lûmé was doing a lot of things I hadn’t done before.
What were you at Royal Mail?
I started as an apprentice and worked my way up to chef de partie, so I took a step back to demi when I went to Lûmé and then came out as a chef de partie, going into junior sous role. I said to Shaun when I left, it’s disciplined, almost army training there. It really sets you in a certain place so when you go somewhere else, you have very high standards. It’s very hard to leave that. It teaches you a lot of discipline, but you also learn techniques you haven’t done before, some of which take three days to make. You really have to be on par with that. You have to concentrate and get to that level of particularity to produce something amazing.
By disciplined, do you mean there are rules to follow?
Even in the way you stand and carry yourself and the way you speak, presenting yourself to people, to the way you plate or chop, the way you set up or clean down; it’s very particular and very precise.
That’s so interesting because Shaun mentioned to me that he had worked at McDonalds when he was 14 and he reckoned that was really good training to be a chef, obviously not food-wise, but because of the systems and discipline there. I get that more now that you have explained it.
Is this your first head chef role?
Yes it is.
How exciting. Congratulations.
Thank you. It is exciting and also nerve-wracking. I knew I was ready for a higher role, but jumping two steps was nerve-wracking for me but knowing that the people who hired me had that faith in me helped me get through. Learning the business side of things is very important, getting that ground-level of everything is very important for any chef. Especially if you want to have your own place in the future.
Would you like to have your own place one day?
Definitely.
Most chefs dream of having their own place, don’t they? Somewhere beautiful…
Overlooking a lake…
I knew I was ready for a higher role, but jumping two steps was nerve-wracking for me but knowing that the people who hired me had that faith in me helped me get through.
How many seats do you have here?
35 inside and 35 outside. If we’re full, we are full.
D?o you have seats upstairs?
It does, but at the moment we’re doing Le Petit Chef, so 3D mapping on the table, very timely, people are running around on the table, plating your food then the video will stop and your food comes up.
What does that mean? I don’t understand that at all.
It’s like Virtual Reality. You don’t wear the goggles, it’s all projection based on your table. It’s very interactive and fun.
Are they still eating?
Yes, they’re not just imagining it.
And you’re doing the food for that?
Yes. So that limits our space, but it offers something extra to the community if they want that extra thing.
My mind is blown. Has there been a big uptake on that?
Yes. It took a little while and some marketing but now each night, we have two sittings and have at least one full sitting. It comes out of China and they have brought it to Australia and saw this venue as a cool place to produce it. It’s exciting.
It is exciting. Is it the same food up there as down here?
No.
Whoa, so you’re running two dining experiences.
It’s a bit challenging, especially because it’s just me in the kitchen.
Wow. So the food here, is it to go with the wine?
I do create things to complement what we have, like things that are salty that you can have with Riesling or with red wine you don’t want something super out there that ruins the taste of the wine or changes the palate. That is definitely important.
We do tastings when a new wine comes in and I’m changing the menu every couple of weeks, based on what people are enjoying and what’s coming into season and so on. This week will see some changes, I think.
So just to go back to the upstairs part, is that a degustation?
It’s three courses, mostly based on the video. The videos are played and we do dishes to replicate that, but slightly differently. The first course is a bouillabaisse, buy I use a porcini broth with fresh seafood and some nice herbs. Then they also get some bread and smoked nuts. The main is a steak. We do brisket and seasonal vege and then they get a gaytime type dessert at the end.
So is it like…sorry, clearly I’m struggling with this…are they watching a movie? And the food comes up as part of that?
Kind of. The projection shines down on the tablecloth and has your plate and knife and fork and then a little chef comes out and cuts down trees, which is broccoli and he throws it on a barbecue. It’s quite interactive and funny and then at the end of the video, all the things he has chopped or caught are on the plate then the video goes away and your food comes up.
Who comes up with these things? It’s great. There’s always something…either you’re eating in the dark or you’re all dressed in white or you’re having interactive videos. The future of food.
I heard the muffeleta sandwiches you make are very popular.
We’ve actually taken them off.
Oh I am so behind the times.
The most popular thing at the moment is the mini octopus roll. I make an XO sauce out of all the cured meat offcuts, so everything is being utilised and there’s no wastage and I add some pickled daikon and aioli, just keep it simple. That seems to be a big hit. We have a few smaller snacky things but If someone wants more of a meal, we do have a ew options like a Feed Me menu or a couple of meals that are bigger.
Where do you get your ideas? Is it from books, or Instagram?
Just things that I like to eat. Or seeing something I like using and finding something I want to pair it with or like using. I’m working on a blue cheese popcorn at the moment which should be quite funky for a snack.
Do you experiment at home or are you so tired form cooking here that you just throw together a stir-fry?
I do like my stir-fry but I do like to experiment at home as well. I think it takes you out of that normal thing, especially eating out at different places, you get that different feel or what’s a great sandwich or whatever, just simple things like that. It’s exciting.
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67 Cardigan Place, Albert Park