Some people dream of rooms lined with books, and I do love that idea too, but for me being surrounded by bottles of wine just feels right. So, sitting amongst the glowing bottles and talking to Kyle Nicol about his time in a Michelin star restaurant in London and his love of native ingredients, was absolute bliss. I have been into Rascal before to talk to Elliott Pinn who was head chef at the time and remains a partner, but he has now handed over the reins to Kyle to embark on other adventures interstate. Rascal is in good hands. Kyle is thoughtful and creative, and I especially appreciated his parting gift of a jar of kimchi and a bottle of pawpaw and bottle brush vinegar, made under his other hat of Poison and Cures and used in the restaurant.
Hi Kyle, how are you going? Now, how long has Rascal been open againwas it 2 November?
Yeah, so we had a really quick turnaround. The announcements were on the Tuesday and then we opened on Wednesday. We were in here all night trying to get straight back in. We were all super keen to get back to work.
So, you missed it while you were at home, or doing things differently?
Yes. Elliott was doing the brunt of the at home stuff and I was just helping him out here and there where he needed me. It has been a rough six months for the whole industry.
What a time. I just saw that those really great guys At O.MY in Beaconsfield only just opened for one day and then they had a fire and they lost their building, and I thought, you have all already had so much to deal with, how can that keep going? But I am happy for you guys that you are open. You were the sous chef and now you have stepped up to head chef.
I've been in head chef roles previously, but this is my first head chef role in Melbourne. I've been here from the open since it was a construction site. We opened with a more full restaurant vibe. It went really well, and we worked our arses off and got some good results. Now with Covid we've had to adjust and change the whole business.
Is it more of a bottle shop and then you can eat in?
Yeah, so the menu is still pretty large and offers quite a bit, but we have introduced the bottle shop and it's doing really well, and I think it makes the venue a bit more approachable as well and a bit more aligned with Brunswick as well.
I love the idea of eating amongst bottles of wine. Some people might say they like to eat in a forest or at the beachfor me, being amongst bottles of wine is comforting! It's amazing. You said this is your first head chef job in Melbourne and I saw you are originally from New South Wales.
I grew up in Coffs Harbour, the south side of Coffs Harbour. I grew upon a farm. My mum had a blueberry, garlic, and citrus farm. I had a pretty humble upbringing. I think that's what got me into foodbeing around food.
You didnt think you would go on to be a farmer, it was more the other end that was more appealing for you?
Yes, eating the food was more interesting than growing it.
So, what did you do once you decided you wanted to be a chef? Did you do your apprenticeship in Sydney?
No, I did it in Coffs Harbour. I never really woke up one day and thought, I want to be a chef. I just sort of got a kitchen hand job, started really enjoying itthe energy of it and then eventually I fell more and more in love with it over the years. So now there is nothing else I can see myself doing. I'm over 10 years in now and I love it more than I ever have.
That's amazing and it's what I really like to hear; it's a job that requires a lot of energy so you do really need to love it. And also I have this ideaI read a book called, Like Water for Hot Chocolate, and whenever this Spanish lady cooked, she put her emotions into her food and those that ate it could feel that and so I think you want someone who really loves the food to be cooking it, otherwise everyone is miserable.
It makes all the difference; it is the most important thing, I think. You've got to love what you're doing, with any career.
Absolutely. And you spent time in London?
Yes. Pretty much straight out of my apprenticeship, I was 21 and I moved over to London. I travelled around Europe for a bit just to sort of check everything out and then got back to live in London. I had an interview with Antony Demetre (at Arbutus which has closed) and then I started a couple of days later, straight into a one Michelin star restaurant with a big name and I hit the ground running.
What was that like?
It was full on. I went from regional small-town chef to Michelin star 90 hours a week and all of that typical London stuff, but I got a lot out of that. When I look back on my time in London, it's where I learned how to cook; my fundamentals I learned with Antony.
How long were you in that restaurant?
Two years.
Did you work your way up? How does it work in those big kitchens?
Yeah, so I came in as a CdP and worked my way up to sous chef.
Wow.
It was a full-on environment and a massive kitchen, big names coming in all the timecelebrities.
Are you able to hold onto that enjoyment and love of cooking when you are under so much pressure? I imagine being a sous chef in a place like that would be quite different to being a sous chef here.
There's a lot more pressure and stress. I still enjoyed it a lot and loved what I was doing. I went there for a reason; to learn some skills and mix it up a bit with some of the big names. After a while, there's only so long you can do those 80-hour weeks. It runs you down. But the industry is starting to change and people are starting to wake up and realise that chefs need to be mothers, fathers, partners. They need to have a life outside the kitchen as well.
Absolutely. We talk about sustainability of the food were using, but it's also about the sustainability of the people cooking it, isn't it?
Exactly.
Then you came to Melbourne after that? Or you went back to Coffs Harbour?
I went back to Coffs for about a year to reconnect with family and opened a couple of restaurants for friends in Coffs; The Spare Room, which is a successful little wine bar now, and a caf for a good friend of mine called Supply. That's also doing pretty well now. Then me and my partner got a little bit bored of being back in a small town, so we moved to Melbourne. I started with Andrew McConnell at Supernormal and did a couple of years there and then moved over to Builder's Arms for a year. I learned a lot of my business and management skills through that company who are the standard for that business operations side of things. I learned a lot there and then decided it was time for something new and connected with Elliott and the other partners here.
I never really woke up one day and thought, I want to be a chef. I just sort of got a kitchen hand job, started really enjoying itthe energy of it and then eventually I fell more and more in love with it over the years. So now there is nothing else I can see myself doing. I’m over 10 years in now and I love it more than I ever have.
How did you get into your love of native ingredients and incorporating them into your dishes?
I think it stems back to growing up on a farm and having nature around and being inquisitive about whether things were edible. It grew from there. There is a massive amount of flavour that a lot of chefs are missing out on with native produce and the sustainability implications are awesome as well. I have a big passion for working with native produce.
How do you find those things? I went on an Indigenous Cultural Walk on the Mornington Peninsula and the guide was telling us about the bulbs you can pull up and they are a bit like potatoes when you mash them up. You can't see them, so how do you discover what's out there and what to do with it?
I just started by picking things and eating them and seeing if they taste good. I've done quite a bit of research into what is edible. I do quite a bit of foraging, although not in the last couple of weeks because we have been pretty flat out with the re-open but I do a lot of foraging for all the native things on the menu.
Are they coastal or inland?
A bit of both. I've got a big bottle brush tree in my backyard, so at the moment I've picked some leaves off the tree in the backyard and I turn those into the eucalyptus oil which goes on our pumpkin dish. Then saltbush you can find all along the coast.
Saltbush is so delicious. I dont know why everyone isn't using italthough I guess it would be over-used then
There are so many common weeds that grow in your backyard that can be eaten if you pick them at the right time, when they are young and green. They're fresh and peppery.
And was it kombucha you were making?
Ive been making quite a lot of vinegars.
Was there a picture of you doing something with something red on Instagram?
Yes. Ive got a little side business I'm working on starting up called Poison and Cures. Ive got some treats I'll give you later as well. But yes, native vinegars; fermenting native fruits. The process is to ferment the sugar in the fruit to alcohol, then the alcohol into vinegar. That red one was beetroot, Geraldton wax and some sagrantino, so a red wine vinegar with some native flavours. Geraldton wax is a very interesting native flavour. It's like lemongrass crossed with little pine needles; it's really delicious.
A lot of those things are so nutritious too, aren't they?
Yes, full of fibre and vitamins.
I was thinking how interesting it is that many of usyou seem to be more in touch than many of the rest of us who seem to have lost touch with whats right for our bodies and what's grown locally. As you say, it's about sustainability. There are grasses we could be using to make bread, instead of what we currently use. It's really incredible, isn't it?
I think as chefs we need to try and be a bit more conscious of it. Even myself I want to be better and better with it every day; using native things that have less impact on the environment and using small farms and local farms. We're using Northside Veges which is a local distributor and most of the produce comes from within 100kms. We are trying to be more conscious about that. We are trying to get rid of all the plastic out of the kitchen and trying to do what we can to move closer towards that more sustainable sort of model.
Absolutely. And what about the seafood? Do you have fish on your menu?
Every now and then. We have crab and oysters and tarama, which is with cod roe; we salt the eggs and make the tarama here. The oysters are all appellation oysters and so very strictly monitored; Sydney rock oysters and native oysters. We are currently getting our crab from Shark Bay in WA, which is a really nice product.
How do you decide on your menu?
I sort of just cook food that I want to eat. If its good, we put it on. Here at Rascal, we've never tried to put ourselves in a box. We've tried to just see what works and go with it. We put a lot of thought into the dishes to make sure theyre delicious and we're using quality ingredients, but we never said, oh we have to be French or Italian.
Do you think Modern Australian is a thing or is it just because we don't know what else to label it?
Yeah it is. I suppose it means a mix of what Australia is; a mix of so many cultures. It's a term that's usedit doesn't sound very nice, but it covers what is happening.
It describes an evolving cuisine, I guess. We do have our styles that are possibly influenced by other countries' cuisines.
Definitely. There's Modern British, so it's definitely a thing, thats for sure.
I only ever wondered about that right in that second. What would your advice be to chefs who are thinking about getting into the industry now, perhaps Covid aside?
I think the most important thing is really being set on being a chef; having the passion is the most important thing. If it's a job you just come in to do a job then go home, then it's probably not the best career for you. The more work you put in outside of work is what develops and grows you into a better chef. It's like any industry. I'm not saying you need to do a million hours, but if you have a keen interest in it, then go for it.
Do you have a lot of cookbooks or do you refer to the Internet or is it a mixture of everything and going out to other peoples' restaurantsyou probably don't have time to do that?
A bit of everything. I haven't had time lately, but I have a few favourites around Melbourne that I love to go back to. The Carlton Wine Room is probably my favourite restaurant in Melbourne. JP's food is awesome; it's super simple but on point always.
I take a lot of inspiration from the produce that is around. It starts from there; from vegetables and I build on that. I would like to write a recipe book one day. I have bloody little recipe books all over the place, like a diary of a mad man. One day.
Just put them all together: diary of a mad man could be it.
Just take a photo of them all
Absolutely. Sounds good. Thanks, Kyle.
341 Sydney Road, Brunswick