Mauro Callegari

Conversation with a chef: It’s so busy here. What days of the week are you open?

Mauro Callegari: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday from noon until late.

Just those three days? Can you make a living from that?

We were opening from Wednesday through to Sunday, all day, but through time, other businesses came to the area, and also there was a change in the economics, and COVID was a tipping point. COVID was when we turned the corner. We were just dead. Completely dead. We condensed into Friday, Saturday, Sunday. We start working from Wednesday, doing prep, and receiving deliveries, and going to farms or foraging. Then also we focus on trying to get functions during the week. We have this room at the back which is very good for corporate functions. We do takeaway too. You need to broaden your horizons. Restaurants can’t be just restaurants anymore. You need to build your clientele and your takings. The cost of the overheads has almost doubled since COVID. Pre-COVID, for the whole building our insurance was around 9 to 10 grand a year. Now we pay 18 to 19. Electricity and gas was a combined monthly bill of around 2.5 grand. Now it’s five and a half. Wages went up, super went up. Everything takes from your bottom line. We actually operate without making a profit. So I just take a good salary. And that’s it. There is no profit.

It’s so disheartening.

And hearing the news of the new budget now. That on top of how everything is going, now they want to take more. If you make a very little profit, they want to take 30% of that. Not getting into politics, but I think that will make a lot of people think, I don’t want to do this anymore. You can actually make more money working casual shifts because very good restaurants are looking for good people to work. Friends of mine that have restaurants pay $50, $60 an hour for someone that knows what to do.

But that’s such a shame for people like you, where you aspire to have your own place and to run it really well and it’s so well received, but you don’t make a profit. That’s what people don’t understand, when they come in and say, Oh, the menu’s so expensive, and I’m not talking about your restaurant, but in general, people complain about the prices of things. But when we go to the supermarket, we notice a difference in the price. Then in addition to that, you’ve got all of these overheads. It’s astounding.

I’m a firm believer that the mid-tier restaurants are going to disappear maybe in the next five years. It will be order at the counter places, or high end. Everything in between, like trattoria, bistro, especially restaurants of the size of ours, the hundred people restaurants will disappear. It will all be 40 guests. That’s what it’s going to be because you can manage it with the labour that you need.

So what’s going to happen for you?

Here we are, let’s say reinventing, certain things. We have the possibility of opening a shop at the front, in the private dining area, deli style, and we could sell our own products. We make a lot of sauces, dressings, we can make ready to heat at home meals. We can try to build a business around that because there is a market for that. People barely cook at home. They are too busy. If you can break into that with good meals at a reasonable price, I think there is a big chance of doing well. We do quite a bit of takeaway in here, for a restaurant of our size and the style of cooking. We started takeaway about six months pre-COVID, which was very lucky because when COVID hit, we were already set for takeaway. Most places had to rush and try to get systems in place for that. We were all already set. We also do catering. We’ve been open almost 12 years and the locals ask us to cater 18ths, 21sts, engagements.

What made you choose Gembrook?

When I was at True South, in Black Rock, my friend, Sam Gordon, who’s the son of Andy Gordon, from Robert Gordon Pottery asked me what I was going to do next. I told him I would love to open my own restaurant in the Dandenong Ranges. Ever since I arrived in Australia in 2003, I used to come here to ride my motorbike. I saw that this area has a lot of potential. He told me that his father had purchased this big warehouse in Gembrook and would I like to check it out? I thought it was beautiful. And the rest is history. We opened two years after that.

Was it a mechanic’s garage?

Yes. There used to be a roller door here and a pit there. The major thing we had to do was change the roof. It was all self-funded from the family. My way of seeing business is a bit more conservative. I didn’t want to get a loan. If it doesn’t work you are left with a loan to pay off and you are bankrupt. If you put your own money in, if it doesn’t work, you walk away, and that’s it. I did all the marketing and branding with my brother and my dad. Sam’s brother, Bobby and his wife, Rowena have an architectural firm, so they did the whole design and project management. Then Hannah Gordon another siblings did the image, and Kate did all the design of the plates. We were business partners with them for about a year and a half, two years, until I was able to buy it with a friend of mine, Jess, who used to work with me for Raymond Capaldi at Fenix. We joined forces, and she was here up until three years ago and I bought her out. Now it’s just me.

That’s amazing. I think, for a lot of chefs, the goal is to have your own place, but it can be hard to get there. There’s a lot involved, isn’t there?

100%. And I think the problem with chefs, especially young chefs, is they get too cocky, too arrogant, and they worry too much about winning awards, hats. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that your business is sustainable. When we got the hat, it was the biggest thing ever to achieve, because we actually never aimed for the hat. We just aimed for people to come here and experience what I want you to see, what I want you to taste. Even though I worked in fine dining for half of my life, I didn’t want that kind of service. I wanted front of house to have knowledge so that they can explain a dish, but after that leave you alone. That was a big thing to find the balance. Laura runs the floor, and she runs pretty much the whole operation. She is professional, but it’s casual. That’s what I like.

I loved everything about it. We’ve just eaten so much food, a real feast, so thank you for all the food that you sent out. It has such lovely feeling. You gave me the tour and showed me all the artworks as well. There’s a lot going on here and I feel like you’ve really woven your personality and obviously that you’ve got really great connections with a variety of people in hospitality, but also artists. It feels very much you here, which is great.

Thank you, that’s the sort of compliments that we like to get, because it’s exactly what we want. You are coming to my house basically. We are here very long hours, even though we only open three days. We need to do paperwork, plan a menu or something happens, or things should be fixed. The maintenance is huge. It’s very important to invest that time to be able to keep evolving. Kate Gordon does a lot of marketing, and she always says, the biggest challenge for you and your business is: How do you bring newness? The customer likes belonging, you like to be recognised when you go to your local café, but you have to keep them interested.

I think the problem with chefs, especially young chefs, is they get too cocky, too arrogant, and they worry too much about winning awards, hats. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that your business is sustainable. When we got the hat, it was the biggest thing ever to achieve, because we actually never aimed for the hat. We just aimed for people to come here and experience what I want you to see, what I want you to taste.

Mauro Callegari, The Independent Gembrook

How do you describe your food? Is it Argentinian-Italian?

In Argentina, there is a term that is called Italo-Argentinian. Argentina has over 50% of the population with Italian background. Then we have another very big part that is Spanish, and then a small part, French, and German. And in Argentina, we have the two biggest colonies of Welsh people and Swiss people and Irish people down south in Patagonia.

What drew them there, do you think?

All this was with the first and second World War. My mum has a French background. My dad, an Italian background. They all went to Argentina at that time. But when you go back to my cooking specifically, it’s called Italo-Argentinian. But the food is also influenced by my travels and my experiences. I don’t like to do traditional Argentinian food. Argentinian people come in and ask, what is your asado? What is your barbeque? We do asado, beef ribs, but we do it in a different way. We do things the way that I like it. We don’t do the classic black pudding, we make a croquette with it. Ox tongue in Argentina has pickle with onion, garlic, and capsicum. In here, I like to brine it, pickle it, and then we grill it before we serve it. We serve it with olives, salsa verde, chilli jam. I really like Moroccan food. I worked with a lot of Moroccan people in England: Moroccan, Algerian, French people and that gave me a beautiful range of use of spices. We used to cook for staff meals at the restaurant in London, with a tajine. It was an insight into their family recipes, and I really fell in love with that. I love Eastern European food, Asian food. I love it. It’s a bit of everything. We have the base, that is the Italian and the Argentinian, but we have all those influences. We make our own pasta, all the dressings.

I really loved the gnocchi with the ragu. It was delicious.

That’s proper ragu. It’s done the same way in Italy. The meat is melted into the sauce, and it’s not just tomato sauce. We use fresh tomatoes, passata, veal jus into it, and then chicken stock, and it cooks overnight in the oven slowly. All the vegetables are grated, because that’s one of the key secrets to ragu, all the vegetables have to be grated, not chopped. Another thing that I do differently to everyone, I don’t really use raw garlic. I cook the garlic and turn it into a puree, and then we use that. I feel like it gives more sweet and nutty flavour.

The desserts were next level as well. I think with all of the dishes, and with what you’re just telling me now, there’s a lot of different layers.

I cannot take credit for the dessert because we have a pastry chef. Her name is Maria Lantelme, I call her Maru. She also Argentinian. She’s been consulting for us. She doesn’t work here full time. She just makes our desserts. We just sit down and talk about what we are doing next. The dulce de leche dessert is not changing. That cannot change. But the mango lamington that you had is fully vegan, but that will change. Maria is one of the best pastry chefs I ever worked with.

I just read a post on someone else’s Instagram during the week where people were saying that pastry chefs can be the most challenging role, because it’s so exact, to do a really beautiful sweet creation, a pastry, dessert, can be really difficult, and that they were lamenting that pastry chefs don’t get enough recognition.

I agree, 100%. Most people focus on how was the service, how was the food? But when they say how was the food, usually they refer to savoury food. It is spot on what you said, they don’t get that right recognition. Maru is a very difficult person in a good way, because she is such a perfectionist. Many times she will try something out and she will think it’s crap. I think it’s fantastic. They are so hard on themselves all the time. She always thinks it can be better. She’s always searching for perfection. When I cook a risotto, it doesn’t matter if I put an extra gram of lemon zest. But when you do a dessert, you put an extra 5 grams of sugar, or coconut, or gelatine, or whatever it is, and it’s a completely different result.

I have worked with Maria on and off for since Argentina. We worked in Argentina in 1997-98. I ended up in Australia, thanks to Maria and her husband, Dan. I was working with my partner at the time in London, and then Dan and Maria were working at Sofitel on Collins Street. I always wanted to come to Australia. I was in that travelling segment of my life, and we used to talk. One day, Dan and Maria, told me they were looking for chefs in here. My girlfriend, at the time, was also a pastry chef. I think that phone call was in October, and 3rd of January, we were here, landing in Tullamarine.

And you’ve never gone back?

I went back to England another two years and worked and travelled, and had a good time, and then came back and we just started doing things here.

You mentioned foraging. What do you forage?

Chestnuts. Pine mushrooms. For example, if tomorrow, the sun is out, you can walk across the road to the Puffing Billy train tracks and you will pick up 10 kilos of pine mushrooms. It is insane. You just need rain and sun in the morning. That’s the equation. There is a lemon orchard up the road, that we go get the lemons from there. We have two truffle farms; one is just down the road here, the other one is in Avonsleigh. Then you have berries, potatoes, of course, Gembrook is potato land. You get quite a bit pf lettuce, pak choi here, then from Koo Wee Rup we get asparagus and pumpkin. Coldstream has Brussels sprouts.

It’s such a great area for all of that. Even just driving around and seeing how lush it is. It’s so green.

Then another thing that happens a lot is a lot of customers and neighbours that we have come in with products. They rock up and say, I have 10 kilos of figs. I ask what they want for them and they say nothing, so I tell them to grab a bottle of wine. At home, we have orange, mandarin, grapefruit, figs, pak choy, herbs, pepper berries, then here, we have apples, and wild strawberries, and lime leaf and bay leaf, thyme, rosemary, mint. That table next to you, the gentleman told me that next week he will bring in jalapenos and finger lines because he has a lot at his farm. I get that all the time.

That’s great. People see that you’re part of the community and that you are a people person. It’s really lovely to know that that’s happening.

We take into consideration the produce that we get like that, and it helps us lower prices. The eggs are also local, the eggs are from a farm in Pakenham. It’s a small farm. It’s a dad, mum, and they have a child and they run their own little farm. It’s a really nice little business set up. So we support them. We have another one across the road from home. The daughter is now 10 years old. We get eggs from her, too. She has 40, 50 chickens, and that’s her business. The mum and dad help her with the delivery, but she does the collection, she packs them.

It’s like a village, isn’t it?

It gives a very good sense of belonging. I have always been a city person. I grew up in Buenos Aires. You have 25 million people in the city, all buildings, and you end up in a place like here which by 3.30 p.m., it feels like you’re on holidays. There is no one around. No rush hour, no traffic lights.

Idyllic. Just to go back to Buenos Aires, and starting out, did you always know that you wanted to be a chef?

I think I always knew. My mum, my grandma are very good cooks. My mum had a restaurant. I worked there for quite a bit, but then I reached the roof too quickly, so I need to move to learn with more professional people. I did a Uni degree in business and marketing, because it doesn’t matter what you do, business and marketing, you need it. Then I want to chef school at a very good school run by a global catering company. It was Swiss based, the whole structure, a very European structure of learning. That that’s actually where I met Maria and Dan. The friendship comes from a very, very long time ago. I went there, and I totally fall in love with it. I had said, since I was very young that I wanted to be a pilot, but because I was almost blind in one eye, at that time, you weren’t allowed to. You needed to be 20/20 vision. I had to give up that dream. So then I said I was going to travel the world. Becoming a chef gave me that opportunity. It was very easy to find jobs. Once I learned English, that open another thousand jobs.

You worked in England and where else?

I worked in England for four and a half years. Then I lived for a little bit in France and in Italy. I love travelling. I’ve been very lucky. I’ve been to 260 cities in the world. I have a list. The four and a half years that I lived in England, it was very easy to travel in Europe. I remember we used to do 14 days straight at the restaurant, and then they would give us six days off together. In six days,  we would have three days in Belgium, three days, Germany, three days here, there. We were always travelling a lot. When I first came to Australia, I did a lot of travelling around here, too. In 2006, I did six months around the world trip on my own. That was amazing. Through Asia to Europe, and then USA, and back to South America. Then back here.

I see what you mean; you’ve had all those experiences that really shape your food as well, because you must have eaten a lot of different cuisines.

Yes, but the other day my son was asking me, what my very favourite dish is. I think I will always go back to Peking Duck. I think Peking Duck is almost an addiction. My son loves it too. I love Asian food. I have stages. I think everybody has stages. Now I’m in a Pho phase. I have it four, five, six times a week.

It always feels like you’re doing something really good for your body with that broth. You’ve had so many experiences. What would your advice be to young people who are starting out as chefs?

I could give a lot of advice, but I think the main one is: don’t think it’s easy. If you’re going to do it right, it’s not. It’s a lot of effort, a lot of hard work, but it’s very, very satisfying when you achieve those little goals. When I learned how to make bernaise sauce or I learned from this chef how to make a red wine jus, it’s fantastic. Now we are in this fast-food world, even for restaurants, you can buy everything already made for a restaurant. You can open a restaurant without a chef now. So, when you learn all that. it is more satisfying. My advice is also that you have to work hard, but the conditions are better now. When I came to Australia, we used to work 16 hours a day, and you still get paid for seven hours. All this has changed now. You are valued. You can have a very good career. Work hard, stay humble. Don’t worry about becoming a MasterChef, about winning an award. Just create your concept. First, train hard, then create a concept. Once you have your concept, put it out there, and then the recognition will come. Your everyday judge is your everyday customer. When people keep coming back, that’s when you know you are doing it right. When people want to come to the kitchen and say, Thank you very much, it was beautiful, or, Oh, my God, how did you do that sauce? How do you do that dressing? That’s when it pays off. Work for good chefs. If you are serious, that’s the way to go.

The Independent Gembrook, 79 Main Street, Gembrook