I caught up with Murat Ovaz at i Carusi II in St. Kilda and I felt as though I was catching up with an old friend. I spoke to Murat when he opened Yagiz in South Yarra about six years ago and that was a fun conversation about the adventures that had got him into hospitality and becoming a chef. The food at Yagiz was next level. Murat was putting up clever interpretations of the food he grew up with in Turkey and his creativity and talent earned him a loyal following. The person I had a coffee and chat with today was a much more relaxed version of the Murat I first met. Stepping into the kitchen and becoming co-owner of southside pizza institution, I Carusi II, was the change Murat needed and we talked about how he got there, what he has learned about pizza, as well as next week's Four Hands dinner with friend and celebrity chef, Colin Fassnidge to celebrate I Carusi II's 20thanniversary. This chat was everything I love about Conversation with a Chef; getting to sit down and hear such great stories about people's lives and passion is a privilege, and I am endlessly grateful.
Murat! What's been happening for you? Because you look totally different. I feel like you've had a whole lifestyle transformation.
It was. I'm a bit more relaxed now. I'm still doing bit and pieces and running this place. It's a bit different to where I was.
I hadn't really caught up with the news that Yagiz had gone, well you left and then it became Yan.
Yes, modern Chinese.
I was surprised, because it feels like such a shift for you to be in a neighbourhood pizza place. But, great. How did it happen?
I was on holiday in Turkey, I think I was in Bodrum or I was in Istanbul and lying on the beach, just relaxing and thinking about things. As you know, there were a couple of investors in Yagiz, it wasn't just me. There was money right behind it. The first two years were spot on, no problem. We got along, hung out together, but eventually reality starts to kick in. I started to feel that we were totally different with respect to the business. My priority was to create good food and create a good vibe, good wine list. But for them it's totally different. It was just about the numbers. At the end of the day, there's a no blame game. Obviously when you have an investment, you need to see some results as well. But this is life priority, the expectation that I had for the project. The project started going in a different direction. Then I said to myself, what is the point of pushing out, rather than selling your soul, doing something different. I started to feel that I couldnt take the place to the next level anymore. Unfortunately, when you start to feel like that, you know the consequences. When you start to feel you're not creating anymore, there's only one way.
I remember you said last time, if you're not happy, you can't create.
Absolutely. I'm one of those guys, where the mood is very important for me. If you see the good things, you can do very, very cool stuff. But I made a call and said, guys, we've been together five years now and that's been a pleasure. There were good days, bad days, we went through Covid together and I appreciate the opportunity of having a restaurant on Toorak Road. But I feel, I need to take the plugs off and I give you guys also the opportunity to make something more and manageable for you guys. They said, okay. And then they turned it into the modern Chinese, which is I think is doing very well now.There's no bad blood.
It's probably like any relationship, it's good if you can call it at that point, rather than letting, letting it drag on till it does become awful.
Absolutely. And then, when I made that call, i Carusi II was my favourite local restaurant. I had pizza here maybe twice a week. One takeaway I'd call them from work and grab it and go, and another one I'd come in on my day off. She said to me one day, you are basically here every day, so why don't you take over? That's how it happened. I Carusi II wasn't a plan. It wasn't a planned project, but there's a vibe in this place which is totally opposite to what I have been doing the last few years. Yagiz had wine matching, a few courses and so on. But this one is more relaxed, a more chill place. People come here and order a couple entrees, one pizza, a glass of wine or a glass of beer, and then the deal is done, they finish, and they are home in 45 minutes. Obviously, we still have a good wine list, we have good pizza. But you don't have too much stress looking after people.
What did you know about pizzas before?
Well, I mean, pizza, I was a good eater. But I made a couple of visits to Europe before Covid. I did my research to see how things work, the combination, how they do menus, how they create, how many pieces they should have on the menu, the balance. We didn't change right away.
So, so it's Neapolitan now?
Yes. We are doing Neapolitan. It was Roman before. They were doing 55% fermentation, 55% water they were using, we are using 75% water so our level is more higher. And the difference is they had more of a crust on the bottom, the layers were thinner, but our style is where there is more crust and the middle is little bit softer Napoli style.
Is that because you noticed a trend or is that style better for you?
It's not better, but it is the way I like pizza. As we mentioned before, I do what I like. I liked their pizza, but there was room to improve. There's not many places in Melbourne you can have very good Neapolitan style pizza. I have been in quite a few places and I'm not giving the name out, I don't want to offend my Italian friends. There are a few good pizza places in Melbourne, but like any other cultural restaurant, they start good and then after a while, everything becomes about the money. I'm not talking about any particular restaurant, I'm talking about in general, the cultural restaurant, Chinese, Italian, Turkish, they very well and then after a while everything turns into the numbers. And things change. Obviously there are people saying, oh, it sounds a bit odd: a Turkish chef is selling Italian pizza. Why are you doing that? Selling pizza isn't a problem for me because you are selling a good product. We have a sign there saying that we sell the best pizza in the world. Maybe it's not the best pizza in the world. My business partner put it there, I don't know why he did that. But the thing is, I guarantee we are the top five in Melbourne for pizza. I'm so proud of the product we are serving.
It makes sense though. If you are a top chef and you really know what you're doing, why can't you make pizza well? You understand how ingredients go together and you understand about fermentation and all of that stuff. So why couldn't you do the best pizza just because you are Turkish.
That's correct. And also, I'm still doing my Turkish popups. The last one was last Sunday and we had nice Turkish music here. We closed the restaurant for lunch and started at one o'clock. My old Yagiz customers were here. We had a good time until seven o'clock. I still do that pop up once a month. As you mentioned before, it's a totally different lifestyle at the moment.
I've moved back to this sea side from being in Richmond for nine years. When I first moved to Melbourne, I was in Elwood for two years. Its nice being back in St. Kilda. It's such a different vibe.
Yes, its a different crowd.
I Carusi II wasn’t a plan. It wasn’t a planned project, but there’s a vibe in this place which is totally opposite to what I have been doing the last few years. Yagiz had wine matching, a few courses and so on. But this one is more relaxed, a more chill place. People come here and order a couple entrees, one pizza, a glass of wine or a glass of beer, and then the deal is done, they finish, and they are home in 45 minutes. Obviously, we still have a good wine list, we have good pizza. But you don’t have too much stress looking after people.~ Murat Ovaz, I Carusi II
And so you still love cooking?
Absolutely. I didn't give up cooking. I can't. I always need to do things and I'm still doing a couple of shifts there. And then I do my once-a-month Turkish popup. I'm starting to do a couple of Instagram recipes, sharing the Turkish recipes with the people. I haven't mastered it yet. I'm a bit social media disabled. Yeah, I still love cooking. I haven't given up on that. I don't think I can give up on that one. And Colin is coming this week.
I know, and I love that. 20 years anniversary for the restaurant.
Yes. 20 years anniversary. Colin said to me that he wants to try to the oven. And I said, okay, you're more than welcome my friend, the oven's yours. It will be fun. Colin and I see things the same way. That's why I think we get along very well. Our thinking is the same about how hospitality works. That's why we get along well and then he wants to do things and I say, Okay, you are more than welcome.
I was going to ask you how the collaboration works. And so how it works is that you just let him do what he wants. What will the menu be?
We will do three entrees. He will do two entrees, I will do one entree and I will do one pizza, a Turkish pizza, and he will do Irish pizza. I dont know what's inside. He wanted to do his own spin. He sent me a couple of pictures. I will do the dessert. We will each do three dishes, so there'll be six courses and it's almost sold out.
How many does it seat here?
We can do 65 in one sitting. We have around 45 here and then we do 15 to 20 upstairs. It depends. If it's one nice weather, we can do another 10 outside. But in Melbourne it's very difficult to get nice weather.
That's exciting. It's quite a small kitchen. Will you work in there together?
I have worked in smaller kitchens. This is nice. This is okay. It is manageable for the size of the restaurant we have.
I was reading back over what we talked about and working with Colin was a real turning point for you when you came to Australia; he really gave you the direction you needed. It's really nice that you've kept that friendship.
He's a very good friend and a very good chef.
Is he mainly based in Sydney?
Yes, Sydney. He doesn't have a restaurant anymore, unfortunately because he's too busy with TV. He does a few different shows now. MKR, some garden cooking show. And they do a few different countries. He was in Mongolia recently. It's busy.
It's a different style of cheffing. But then I guess it's great to have that possibility, especially for sustainability of being a chef. It's hard work. So it's nice that there's these other options of sharing the love for food. Would you ever go on TV?
I think being a TV chef, you need to have a good aura. I don't think I'm the one of those guys. We did a couple of small things with Shane Delia for SBS food and everyone said it was okay. But when I see the camera, I start to feel pressure. Even this recording makes me feel a bit pressured. I'm not sure, if one day the opportunity comes along, why not?
So the dinner is next week on Saturday?
Yes. It'll be fun. And we'll be fine. This place is at home at the moment. And hopefully I will do another project, but I don't know when. It has to be right place, right time. The Turkish cuisine will come back for sure. We will see when. This one is keeping me busy enough and sometimes I get bored.
Well, that's life though. Absolutely. It's okay to be bored. You can't always be on a high.
You can be bored from time to time, you know? There's all those Yagiz customers coming here having a pizza, and they say, where do I know you from? And I say, oh God, here we go again. I say, I don't know. They say, youre the Turkish chef, aren't you? Yes. I used to have the restaurant in Toorak Road. Then they ask why Im not doing Turkish. This place would be a very difficult one to turn into something else.
I think so. After 20 years.
You need to respect the people who have been coming here for the last 20 years. It should be as it is.
Are you open seven days?
No, we used to open seven days, but I close on Tuesday now. Yeah. It's too much. The place needs a day off as well. It's an old place.
i Carusi II, 231 Barkly Street, St Kilda