The drive into The Dining Room At Lancemore Lindenderry in Red Hill takes you past rows of vines and manicured gardens that open out to 38 acres of rolling lawns, a tennis court, wood-fired hot tubs and 41 elegant rooms. It’s the sort of place you can settle into for the weekend or drive down for lunch and wish you’d booked a room. In the kitchen is executive chef Nick McGonigal. He started cooking at Red Scooter Events before moving into Melbourne institution Cecconi’s, before crossing the world to spend two years as chef de partie at Brett Graham’s three-Michelin-starred restaurant The Ledbury. Back in Australia, he cooked at Bentley Restaurant and Bar in Sydney, before moving home to Melbourne and working at Society then Paringa Estate. Ten years after his apprenticeship, he’s leading the kitchen at Lindenderry. We talked about the move from winter to spring, a citrus and lavender dessert served with a burst of liquid nitrogen, the balance between creativity and spreadsheets, and why the story behind an ingredient matters to him.
Nick, it is so nice to be here. I had no idea about the expanse of it all. So it’s Lancemore at Lindenderry?
Yes, correct. Lancemore is the hotel group. And the property here is named Lindenderry.
Do you know who it’s named after or where that name comes from?
I know Linden comes from the Linden trees and then I believe there’s a place called Derry and the owners like the name, so they combined the two. I’m not 100%. I’m 80% sure that’s correct.
I was looking at where you’ve been and I thought The Ledbury has a similar feel to the name as Lindenderry. I thought maybe you had an affiliation with Ls.
That’s what I thought. I thought it sounded familiar, so it might have been a sign.
I had no idea that the hotel was so big, 41 rooms? And beautiful landscape and grounds. How big is it?
It’s 38 acres. There’s so much in the back of it as well. We have a tennis court. At the moment, we have hot tubs, which are heated with wood fire, so people can go exploring. There’s things that do, which makes it really exciting.
Have you used the hot tub?
Not yet, no. I’m planning to use the tennis court soon with a friend.
So nice. When did you arrive here?
I started in February this year. I’ve been here for six months.
So you are settled now.
Definitely settled now.
What’s on the menu? Today’s Saturday. Was it a busy lunch?
Today we had a busy lunch, which was just good and we had a few walk-ins. Tonight’s another busy night, so that’s exciting. I feel like we’re coming out of winter a bit early this year. I’ve been on the peninsula for a few years and it drags on, but this year I feel like people are coming out a bit earlier. I feel like spring’s also a bit early, so that’s encouraging people to come out to the peninsula, which is exciting.
Are you on a winter menu now?
Yes, we’re on a winter menu and I’m just starting to shift into spring. At the moment, I’m working on a new dessert involving a lot of citrus, citrus is very popular at the moment. I’m going towards a floral, so there’s a bit of lavender in there, citrus. I’m using a bit of liquid nitrogen, which is something that I’ve played around with before in my career and something that I want to continue to use. So I’m involving that into the dessert, which is exciting.
So how is that involved? How do you use it?
I’m using segments of grapefruit, blood oranges and freeze drying them in the liquid nitrogen. Then they break apart into the natural segments of the orange. And then we’re going to serve that at the table on top of the dessert. It adds that bit of theatre to the restaurant, which people really enjoy.
In terms of the entrées and mains, is it modern Australian?
It’s always a funny one. People always talk about what is Australian cuisine because it’s so influenced, especially from that our neighbouring Asian cultures. I would say modern Australian, there are some indigenous ingredients on there, like wattle seed, muntrees, but there’s definitely an Asian influence. I use a lot of seaweed, kelp miso in the cooking. But I would say my technique is more European based; lots of French, Italian, lots of sauces with proteins, a few pasta dishes. There’s definitely a blend, which I really enjoy.
It can be easy getting stuck in the office and then it’s not fun. There is a lot of paperwork involved, a lot of emails to respond to, and it’s part of the gig and I’m just trying to find the balance. I want to be in the kitchen. I want to be on the pass. I’ve got a great sous chef Brenton, who’s fantastic. He’s a huge support to me. It’s all about the relationship and the team work that I have with him and we have with the team that brings us success here.
Nick McGonigal, The Dining Room at Lancemore Lindenderry
I read somewhere that you really like the stories of the food that you’re using and I love anything to do with stories. I was interested to hear a little bit more about that. Do you mean, because a lot of it is locally grown, that there are stories attached to things?
Definitely. I think the stories about how it’s produced and the producers, and the produce; how they started up, how many years they’ve been doing it. There are so many people that have started up small businesses and it’s grown massively and they’re supplying across the country now. They really showcase the Mornington Peninsula and put it on the map. Mornington Peninsula has always had a massive wine attraction but the food is definitely right behind it as well and I think it’s going to be a destination in the country.
Absolutely. And so on your menu, is it largely local?
Yeah, there’s fair blend. I won’t say everything is local because I think for example, to get great scampi, and I’ve got scampi on the menu now, I’m not going to get any from the local bay. But I do try to showcase the local producers, but Australian producers as well.
I feel as though you have had a really fast trajectory, because I read that you were doing your apprenticeship in 2015, so that’s only 10 years ago. Congratulations. You were overseas during that time as well, so you’ve really packed it into 10 years. Now you’re an executive chef, so you oversee the restaurant, the rooms…
Everything from the fine dining restaurant, cellar door, room service, breakfast, and weddings and conferences. There’s quite a lot in there and it’s good because it’s all different types of food and catering. I’ve had experience in all those except conferences and I’ve had experience in weddings and breakfasts before and in this position, I have to blend them all and grasp from all experiences of my whole career in this one role.
So there’s a lot more admin, I imagine, spreadsheets and so on, more than just cooking and being creative. But you came out of the kitchen just before, so you’re obviously still on the pans. Is that important to you?
It is, and especially this last couple of months, it’s always trying to find the balance. It can be easy getting stuck in the office and then it’s not fun. There is a lot of paperwork involved, a lot of emails to respond to, and it’s part of the gig and I’m just trying to find the balance. I want to be in the kitchen. I want to be on the pass. I’ve got a great sous chef Brenton, who’s fantastic. He’s a huge support to me. It’s all about the relationship and the team work that I have with him and we have with the team that brings us success here.
When you’re in a winery, how much consideration do you have to give when your creating menus to the wine? Do you work in with the winemaker or the sommelier?
Yes, the sommelier of the group, Jacquie, she’s fantastic. She’s got a lot of experience from here and overseas as well. We’ve had tasting sessions with her where we go through the wines. We showcase obviously our own Lindenderry wines, but we also showcase international wines, which is fantastic, and other Mornington Peninsula wines as well.
How do you work out dishes that go with the wine? Is the wine so good that you can drink any wine with any dish or do you stick to the rules of what goes with what?
Yeah, it’s always a weird one. People say, do you create a dish that goes towards a particular wine? I do, in a sense, because obviously you’ve got heavy, earthy dishes, you want to match with a red. But it can be very tricky. I feel like there’s more varieties of wine out there which can match with my food, rather than the other way around. But in saying that there is a special event coming up in a couple of weeks where I head down to Werribee Mansion and we’re doing a collaboration with your Yalumba wines and I have to match a dessert with a red wine, so it is a bit hard and a lot of people would just do a cheese and I don’t like doing a cheese as a dessert course. I think a cheese needs to be a cheese course. I created a white chocolate mousse with quince poached gin red wine and that compliments that wine that we’ve chosen really well. It was a bit of a challenge, but that’s an example of that.
Have you had experience in the pastry section?
Yes. I did a lot of work in pastry when I was at Society. That was a really big pastry kitchen. One of my good friends at the time, Cass, was head pastry chef there and she’s fantastic. She taught me a lot. She’s very patient with me, but she also pushed me a bit there and that was my first main exposure of pastry. But obviously, you know, witnessing pastry in other restaurants I’ve worked at, I may not have been part of this section, but you pick up a lot of things just by observing, whether it’s flavour combinations or techniques. At the time I wouldn’t really fully understand it, but looking back at it, I can put the pieces together and I’m using those lessons now.
Because I feel like we often say, oh, pastry, you have to have the exact right measurements and all of those kinds of things. But I guess when you’re doing fine dining, you have to be pretty exact as well.
I would say pastry is very technical and very precise. It’s not like savoury where you can just put a knob of butter in it and off you go. I’d say that there is a different approach to it, which I’ve learned along the way.
I went to university for pretty much four weeks and I thought, this is not what I want to do. It was weird. It was a science course. I was doing a Bachelor of Science and I pretty much dropped out. I sat my exams and the only exam I passed was chemistry and the reason being was because we were given a prac, which I read like a recipe. You follow it through, you write your results, and I thought, this is easy, it’s just a recipe, I just don’t eat the experiment at the end. That was the only subject I passed at university and that was the reason thought, maybe I should give cooking another thought, so I decided I would just go down that path.
Nick McGonigal, The Dining Room at Lancemore Lindenderry
Did you always think you’d be a chef?
Yes. When I was younger, I loved cooking and I told my family I was going to be a chef and then when I was in high school and, when you’re 17, 16, you start really thinking about what career you’re going to do. At that time I thought, nah, I’m not going to be a chef. The hours aren’t great, the pay’s not great, I’m not going to do that. I went to university for pretty much four weeks and I thought, this is not what I want to do. It was weird. It was a science course. I was doing a Bachelor of Science and I pretty much dropped out. I sat my exams and the only exam I passed was chemistry and the reason being was because we were given a prac, which I read like a recipe. You follow it through, you write your results, and I thought, this is easy, it’s just a recipe, I just don’t eat the experiment at the end. That was the only subject I passed at university and that was the reason thought, maybe I should give cooking another thought, so I decided I would just go down that path.
Did you do your apprenticeship at Cecconi’s?
I did my last two years at Cecconi’s. I did my first year at an events venue called Red Scooter, which is now shut. That was a lot of bulk food preparation, weddings, parties.
Cecconi’s is such an institution. A lot of people I’ve spoken to have gone through there and I’ve got friends who were there. What a great place to be.
It is a fantastic restaurant. I think the food and the kitchen team, but the owners, the Bortolottos, they are veterans in this industry, they’re there every day working as hard as anyone else. I’ve definitely had great employers and they’re definitely one of them where you witnessed them how hard they’re working and they led by example. It makes you work harder when the person that’s employed you is working is hard.
When you started and you wanted to be doing the recipe that you could actually get to eat at the end, it’s really hard work. What do you think that it was about being in the kitchen and hospitality that made you think, yeah, this is right for me?
I was given a two week trial, more to see if I liked it. And then at the end of that two weeks, they said, so did you want to come on as an apprentice? The first two weeks were great. And I thought, yeah, why not? I wasn’t 100% sold, but I was willing to give it a go. And the last 10 years have just flown by and I’m just chasing every challenge ahead of me. I suppose that’s why I’ve moved into an executive role so quickly, because I was looking for the next challenge.
That’s great, but there’s looking for the next challenge and then being able to achieve that. So how, what have you done to improve your skills or your outlook or creativity?
Creativity is definitely a tough one. Especially when the new season comes around and you’re not sure what you want to do and you can sit there and think and you can look through books and you start developing a dish and then after a few trials, you think, no, this isn’t going to work and you remove the component. It’s a really funny one. I feel like my ideas come to me when I’m not trying to think about it. Especially if I’m just having a day off, I would go out and an idea, I just jot it down and I just try to use that later on when I’m trying to develop something different.
Do you use lots of notebooks?
I just use my phone, really.
Oh, yes. You’re a young person. Obviously your ideas are probably inspired by what’s available and produce and so on, but do you look at cookbooks or online?
A bit of everything. Definitely cookbooks. I’ve got a big collection of cookbooks and cookbooks can be quite heavy. They take up a lot of space. Instagram. Whether it’s something I’ve cooked in the past; I might think, oh, I could do that puree or I could use that technique with a different vegetable or something. It’s a summary of all my experiences, I would say.
I did a lot of reading when I was an apprentice. I used to get the train in to work every day and I used to read on the train and it was mainly autobiographies, so it was more the stories of other successful chefs all around the world. Everyone who was successful worked in a Michelin restaurant and the majority of them worked in London. That was the draw card for me. I wanted to do it as soon as I could. As soon as I was qualified, I booked my flights and headed to London.
Nick McGonigal, The Dining Room at Lancemore Lindenderry
Can you still be surprised by flavour and you mentioned that you were using native ingredients? It’s good to be introduced to those things that come from the land. Do you get surprised by a flavour?
Definitely. I think I need to go out and eat more. But there are times I go out and there is a flavour combination or there’s an ingredient that I haven’t had before and I’m shocked. And then it inspires me to go and use that ingredient.
When you get a new ingredient that you haven’t used before, do you research how to use it, or you just go on intuition?
I do a fair bit of research initially, but I think there’s always a bit of just trying it out. Josh Niland has changed the industry and for the better, because he thought differently about all the cuts of fish. There’s a bit of using other people’s experiences and then trying to create something different.
Three years in, you went overseas. Was that important to you to get that experience?
Definitely. I did a lot of reading when I was an apprentice. I used to get the train in to work every day and I used to read on the train and it was mainly autobiographies, so it was more the stories of other successful chefs all around the world. Everyone who was successful worked in a Michelin restaurant and the majority of them worked in London. That was the draw card for me. I wanted to do it as soon as I could. As soon as I was qualified, I booked my flights and headed to London. I discovered The Ledbury and Brett and that’s how I was drawn there.
It always intrigues me when chefs go to London and they end up working in Michelin restaurants. When you go and you are only three years in, do you go with references?
I was very lucky that Olimpia Bortolotto from Cecconi’s had a connection with someone that used to work at The Ledbury. He was Australian and came back and made a career down here. There were a lot of favours, really good people helping me out. They didn’t really know me. That set me up to do a stage there. So I did a stage, which is pretty much a free internship. Then I asked them if they were looking for anyone.
Did you start off picking herbs?
I started off in the bread and petit four section. Right at the bottom after the kitchen hand. It’s just cutting bread, one canapé and then doing the petit fours. It wasn’t a huge amount, but the attention to detail and execution was on another level. Although that wasn’t as difficult, it was challenging at the start and then as you progressed through the sections, it got more difficult, more advanced. That’s how The Ledbury works because you start off with canapés and then go on to entrées, hot entrées, garnish, and then you’re on sauce and fish.
Was it a culture shock when you got there?
Yeah, definitely. I think it had a great kitchen camaraderie culture. Everyone helped each other, but everyone was working very, very hard. It was high pressure. Everyone is working long hours. Everyone’s tired. People were stressed. Cecconi’s had that as well, but not at quite the same level. It did help me that at Cecconi’s I was doing high numbers, but to do it at that level was definitely a shock.
I like the idea that that everyone was helping each other, though, because you can get kitchens where that doesn’t happen.
I’ve definitely heard horror stories about chefs sabotaging other chefs and it’s not great, especially there’s a few chefs who are a bit old school and they have that mentality but it’s getting stamped out, which I think is for the better.
Absolutely. And did you get to travel a bit while you were there?
I went to Amsterdam, Berlin and Italy. There were a couple of little short holidays there. Especially when you’re over there, you’re an hour flight and you can pretty much go anywhere in Europe. That was one of the benefits.
I wasn’t very patient. I would say to my younger self, just be a bit more patient. I think even now I’m still working on it. Read a lot. I think if you’re really passionate about food, once you pick up a book, you’re not going to put it down. But just read, read, read, and eat out a lot.
Nick McGonigal, The Dining Room at Lancemore Lindenderry
When you came back here, you worked at Society.
Yes, I worked at Bentley first. And then I worked at Society.
That would have been amazing.
Yeah, it was. Especially because I had a couple of friends that worked at Bentley and one was there at the time and it got me my foot in the door. It was a great experience. I learned a lot there. I was there for just under a year. But I learned a lot in that time.
Then you felt the draw of the Peninsula. You were at Paringa?
The draw was the experience. I was writing the Lillan Pass when I left Society and I wanted to develop things. I had all these ideas in my head. It’s funny. I was talking about before, how it’s hard to find ideas, but at the start, I had all these ideas that I wanted to try out and to go through a smaller restaurant like Paringa, I was given the opportunity to develop ideas and work on my cooking. It was something that I was attracted to, and then I was given a head chef position after nine months.
That’s a step up, because I think when you’re sous chef or and some of those other roles you have a level of responsibility, but suddenly when you are head chef or executive chef, as we said before, you have to get into more of the spreadsheets and think more about food costs. Does that feel limiting to creativity or a challenge to be accepted?
I think it’s definitely a challenge. I think you can go work at some great restaurants. You can go work at the best restaurant in the world, and you can be there for 10 years and learn how to cook amazing food, but their food costing is not financially sustainable. And I think that some people become aware of when they do go over there and they come over here and get given a head chef position, they’re going to make it financially sustainable because that’s really important. You want people to continue to come out and dine in your restaurant. If it’s not an affordable price and they don’t feel like they are getting value, it makes it very difficult.
Do you read reviews?
I do. I think it’s important to read feedback and sometimes it can be a bit disheartening. Everyone has their opinion. I think there’s definitely some I think that are a bit unfair, but I think it’s just part of the role. You brush it off in the end. But I think there are sometimes good points in there, especially criticism, that you just need to take on board. Maybe it’s something you hadn’t thought about that. Maybe they’re right, maybe the portion was a bit small because sometimes I can be too focussed on the food costs and not whether it is substantial enough? It’s always important to not focus on it too much, but definitely look over to them.
What does it mean for you to be a successful chef?
Success, yeah, it’s weird how you can measure it. You can measure it long term or short term. I think to be a successful chef, you’ve got to fail, and I’ve definitely failed along the way and made a lot of mistakes and learned from them. Long term success for me is the goal. Consistency is the goal. Having people continually come back and you recognise them, they recognise you on the first name basis. I think that’s definitely a good measure of success.
What would your advice be to someone starting out as a young chef? Well, perhaps what would you tell yourself as a young chef starting out?
I wasn’t very patient. I would say to my younger self, just be a bit more patient. I think even now I’m still working on it. Read a lot. I think if you’re really passionate about food, once you pick up a book, you’re not going to put it down. But just read, read, read, and eat out a lot.
The Dining Room At Lancemore Lindenderry Red Hill, 142 Arthurs Seat Road, Red Hill