Pawan Dutta

It's lovely to meet you, Pawan. What a beautiful property. How long has it been open?

A little over a month and a half.

So you're not working today?

No, I was off today and I thought it was a good opportunity to give them a little bit of room to do their thing without me being there all the time. I thought, okay, Saturday night, just do it. There are enough chefs, you can handle it, you can do it.

I think that's really good, especially on a Saturday.

My philosophy is, I like to empower people. Luckily I've always had bosses who trusted me, so I want to impart the same trust in my people. It lets them own that situation so that, oh, the chef is not here, let's put our best foot forward.

I think that's great. It says a lot about you and the way you've set up your team then, because I think some chefs would worry or their ego would get in the way of that. But for a team to run really well, they have to be able to do it without you.

Absolutely. Because I can't be here 24/7. Its hospitality. It's not just one person. I'll lead them and give them the motivation and of course the basic recipes and I teach them the craft, but it's up to them also what they make of it. And like I said, I can't be here all the time, so I should be able to trust my sous chef and my team to make the right decisions. At the end of the day, it's not just my hotel. The success of the hotel is due to everyone here.

Have you always worked in hotel kitchens?

Yes. My journey started back in India after doing my bachelors degree. I worked in a five-star resort at Taj Hotels for just a little less than a year. Then I went to Dubai. I think it was because of my father. He really wanted me to get out of India and learn something more. Dubai is a great place for young chefs because there are so many nationalities, so many great chefs, so many great restaurants. You learn the craft and the basics very well. I was there for about three and a half years. I grew gradually from a demi to a chef de parti, and I think I learned most of my basics there.

From there I went to work with the Ritz Carlton in Doha. That was a great opportunity. The Ritz Carlton is an amazing, amazing company and that place really taught me to calm down a bit because, you know, old school chefs were always a little bit yelly. I wasn't like that, but I was afraid if I had stayed in my previous jobs I would have become that because there is so much pressure that you need to be aggressive all the time. But I think the Ritz Carlton embodied in me to be a true gentleman and it stuck with me. I like to treat people the way I like to be treated. It has always worked for me in my favour.

I was just thinking when you were talking, do you think – well, you might not know because you might not have worked in restaurant kitchens – but I'm just wondering, we talk a lot about leaving behind the yelly chefs, and I wondered whether maybe hotel kitchens, and obviously not all hotel kitchens, would they be a bit behind a restaurant kitchen in terms of that shift? Is it still quite brigade-like in hotels and a stricter structure?

I did do a small stint in a stand-alone restaurant in Melbourne actually. It was my first job in Australia, working with Guy Rossi. Hes an amazing chef. I was working as a head chef there for about seven months and I'd learned a great deal, but that's when I really realized – and that was my first time working in a standalone restaurant – that restaurants are not for me. I've always had a hotel background, especially five-star luxury properties and I wanted to keep it that way. I was lucky enough that my career path always kept me that way. Pre-openings are never easy. There are so many challenges and you have to do so many things and have so much patience. But I'm so glad I took that step.

What do you think it is that you like about hotels?

I think they're more organized. We are not very bound here with SOPs. I believe there still needs to be some sort of standardized procedures in place where people are held accountable for their positions. I believe that in stand-alone restaurants, it's like anyone can make a decision if it's a family-owned restaurant, everyone has their own opinions and you're just working for them instead of working for the guests. Whereas I believe that in hotels we have a common goal and that is the guest. Of course, everyone has their own part to play, but I like being a part of something luxurious, without being pretentious. Straight from university where we were taught how to hold the cutlery and how to eat to my first job in India or even in Dubai, Ritz Carlton, and then I was working on a private mega yacht for about five years and traveling the world. I went to Conrad in the Maldives and in Tokyo.I believe that has also moulded me into the person I am and I thought that working in the standalone restaurant was taking it away from me both professionally and personally. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing standalone restaurants, Michelin star restaurants around the world, three hatted restaurants here in Australia. But I just felt that I needed that whole package. I needed something more, not just one restaurant.

I want to be in charge of an entire hotel where if something goes wrong in any restaurant, in the hotel or in an event or in the room service or for breakfast, I like that challenge to be held accountable. I think that's what happens when you work in a hotel, that you own the entire space. Its about ownership for me.

Tell me about the food at the Royce.

We are leaning a little bit towards British cuisine.

It's very great Gatsby here.

I have to say, it is! When I came for the interview and my GM showed me around and you see that this is a gorgeous property, even when it was not fully done I knew it was going to be something special. The challenge for me was everyone who walks through the doors already has high expectations. I don't want the guests to say, I went to the Royce and it was absolutely gorgeous, however – and that however can be in terms of food or service. We are competing with the beauty of the hotel, so the standards are pretty high anyway and I wanted to maintain those standards. The brief was given to me about British cuisine, and I've never lived in the UK and I have not trained with Michelin star chefs. It was a bit overwhelming for me at first. I was discussing with this with a friend of mine in India, and she was telling me to think about it as reverse psychology without being trained by a Michelin style chef or without being from UK or living or having lived in Europe, you're still here. You've still accomplished whatever you've accomplished. So just believe in yourself and just keep doing what you do. Every time I tell myself the same thing. When we were making this menu, I did a lot of research, about not just the cuisine as such, but ingredients. I looked at the vinegars they use, the oils they use, the meats they use, and then sort of have an idea of how the flavour profile works. I looked at the famous dishes and worked out how I could bring those dishes without following a specific recipe or stealing from another chef. I wanted to make that our own and put my own little twist on it. Thats the journey which happened with The Royce.

What are some dishes on the menu?

It's pretty eclectic. We have a traditional chicken liver pate, which we find in most British restaurants, but we've just made it a little bit different with a crystal bread, where the bread is translucent. It looks like a piece of glass, but it's not really. We wrapped up the pate with pickled cherries and it's an absolutely gorgeous dish or we do something like a Wellington.But instead of making a beef Wellington, we made it a vegetarian pumpkin.We still kept the traditional elements, like a duxelle, but the spinach was a spinach crepe wrapped pumpkin, with malt vinaigrette and charred asparagus and grilled tomatoes. Other British elements are Eton Mess, where we have played a lot with the flavours. This is our first time making this menu, and we've already learned so many things in terms of seasonality. We started when it was summer and the restaurant and the hotel were pushed back a little bit, so we are keeping that menu until the winter. Im working on the new winter menu at the moment.

I had a look online at the rooms and they look amazing. Especially that two storey loft suite. I'd love to stay there. Its so beautiful. Are the people staying there and then dining here?

We have room service as well. Its the same menu for breakfast and for the Showroom Bar, so they can order any time they want, but I think obviously the rooms are so beautiful, so I can't even say, oh, forget the rooms and come and have that experience in the restaurant because the rooms are just as beautiful.

The rooms are so beautiful. I don't think I would leave the room.

I was lucky enough at the beginning to stay in one of the rooms for two, three days and I didn't want to leave, to be honest.

And it's such a lovely part of the city to walk around as well. Guests can just to go for a little walk and then come back to their lovely room and eat the lovely food.

It's so easy to get into the city on the tram. It's literally three stops and you're in the city. I live in the city. So it's very easy for me to commute. Im new to Australia. I just arrived about three years ago and that is also a learning process for me. Sometimes people talk about these famous chefs or famous restaurants or these institutions, which maybe I'm not familiar with, but I believe it's also good because I have no preconceived notions.It's like a blank slate for me. When people talk about these things, I can make my own judgment by trying food.

Absolutely.

I arrived just before Covid. Luckily I have a cousin here and his family.

What made you move here?

It was actually my cousin. He saw I was moving around a lot and he said, why don't you come to Australia? After being in so many countries, I had been thinking, so what's next for me? I wanted to call a place home. I think in many ways when you travel so much it changes you. And I thought that a part of me may not be able to settle back in India. Dont get me wrong, I love India. I love being with family. I think the food is absolutely gorgeous.

What part of India are you from?

Delhi. But I still thought, why not another adventure? I just decided to apply for a permanent residency and I got it. I moved to Australia from Tokyo and then even with the pandemic, I had other plans in my mind, obviously that didn't work out, but I also always believe that everything happens for a reason and it happens for the best. If there hadnt been a lack of Italians, then probably Guy Grossi wouldn't have hired me, and that journey wouldn't have started. I always believe that everything happens for a reason.

Absolutely. And right back at the start, you did a degree, but what made you decide to get into hospitality and become a chef?

I think I always knew that I liked being in the kitchen. I used to always follow my mum. Even though obviously I was a kid and she wouldn't let me cook anything, but I still felt very safe just even standing in the kitchen and watching her work. Gradually I started cooking a little bit more, helping out a little bit more, making a dough, you know, like we eat at home, a dough for bread or something sweet, like a semolina pudding. And she let me, and it turned out to be really great. It was such a morale booster that then I thought, okay, maybe this is something I'm good at. Maybe that's the reason why I'm always standing near the kitchen is because it's calling me. I was a very average student. Its always a dream of every Indian parent that they want their kids to be either doctors or engineers, but I knew even taking science as a major in my high school, I knew that I was never going to be a doctor. I always thought that I needed to be in the kitchen and when the opportunity came, I applied for the hospitality program and it was a three year degree program. Then you have to choose the field you want to go in and I chose culinary and that was it. That was the beginning. Then I started traveling and I never looked back.

It's a really great job for that, isnt it? How many different countries have you worked in?

This is my sixth country. But I've visited way more. I was working on a private yacht, and I've been to about 80 countries, and it was an amazing experience. It was five years of my life which I really cherish. You grow so much as a person, but as a chef also. I think my basics

You must pull in and anchor and have to go and discover the food, the markets and even the supermarkets.

Absolutely. We were encouraged to bring the destination alive. So if we were in Peru, we were expected to make a Peruvian menu and Peruvian specials. Imagine going to a country for the first time, not knowing anythingand then you walk outside in the afternoon and you go to these markets and you start tasting these amazing products. Obviously it starts with research. We looked at menus and asked, okay, what do Peruvians eat? Then you have five or 10 sample menus in front of you, so you get a basic idea of which direction they go in. Then its about how you can do justice to that food and how you can call it your own. Those five years taught me so much.

Did you keep notebooks or records of it all?

Yes. We printed out the menus and then I have all my recipes still on a hard drive. When you have to make six daily specials every day for the residents who stay on board, its a big challenge.

Who was on board?

Really rich people. It was their home, maybe their second, third or fourth home. They would come and they go as they're please. I cooked for Gina Rinehart, Richard Branson, people like that. We had five restaurants there. It was just an amazing as an Indian passport holder, to be able to go out and just to be in these amazing countries and to be able to experience whatever I experienced and then to be forced, not forced, but have the pressure to learn, for example, Peruvian dishes. You can't say no, so what do you do?You push yourself. And then you come up with something which they will appreciate. The basics came from Dubai and from Doha, but I grew and that confidence came from the ship.

From there, Conrad Maldives, being on an island, was another challenge with logistics, where the supplies only come maybe once or twice a week, so how do you make your menus? Obviously the people are paying so much money, the expectations go up as well and then to be able to make menus for the first underwater restaurant ever. And then winning the world's best restaurant that same year was a morale booster again. Then you feel like, oh, I may be doing something right.

What was your role there?

I was executive sous chef.

Oh, well, goodness, congratulations.

It was a transitional phase for me because I could have been promoted, but it was more about my personal life. I was thinking Id had five years on the ship, now I'm on an island and I've completed almost a year and a half, so what's next? Do I want to stay on an island or move somewhere else?

Then there was a position available at Conrad Tokyo. My mum sort of grew up in Japan as well. She is a well-travelled woman, and she has a special connection with Japan. Growing up, my sister and I would hear stories, she would not keep quiet about Japan, and maybe that was one of the reasons why I was thought, okay, let me see what the fuss is all about. Without even inviting her, she came there twice.

Have your parents been here?

My mum has. She's actually in Melbourne at the moment. She came for three and a half months. That's the longest she has stayed away from home. She came here and she was very proud.

How many in your kitchen team?

Here at the moment? We have 14. Its a big team. As I said, I've always had really good bosses and I must say I have incredible bosses here as well. Even the owner, who obviously has to make money as an investment, that's why they've hired us to protect this asset and to make money for them, but they're also very, very generous. In return they just want good food and a clean kitchen. That's what I keep telling the chefs; you go to some other place in some other restaurant hotel with 94 rooms, you don't get to work with 14 chefs, so we are so lucky here that we've been given the resources. They don't hold back, they've given us everything. They've never questioned me regarding ingredients, regarding the equipment.

So it's my responsibility and I treat it like my own hotel, to be honest, to protect this asset which I'm so proud of.

That's lovely. And just to finish with, because you've had so many different experiences and you've really embraced this chef's life, what would be your advice to someone who's considering becoming a chef?

Oh, it's a tricky one, isn't it? These days I think hospitality has changed so much, especially after the pandemic. It's sort of put things into perspective of what is important in your life. But I still feel if you want to be a chef, it is not an easy job. I'm not one of those old school chefs at all. I really believe in work life balance. But I think when you're in your twenties, in your teens and your twenties, that's the time when you have to push yourself. Forget about the hours. I'm not into exploitation, but I do believe, and I'm talking generally, not about this hotel, you have to do your hours, learn your craft, get the basics right so that no one can question you later in your life. Sometimes kids these days, they move a lot and people are ready to pay more money, give them promotions because there's a shortage of chefs everywhere. But I would say, stay in one place, learn the craft, do your best, have patience, and it'll be fruitful in the end for sure.

Royce Hotel, 379 St Kilda Road