Rosemary Andrews

Conversation with a Chef: Hi Rosemary, it's lovely to meet you. We are standing in Mietta, which is a beautiful little space. I love all the white marble and the beautiful French porcelain flowers on the wall and the gold accents in the name signage and the drinks trolley. Was it easy to choose how you wanted to present your cakes when you came into the space?

Rosemary: No, absolutely not. I got some designers called Design by Golden. They are architects in Melbourne who do a lot of bakeries and restaurants and luxury homes in Melbourne. I approached them for an advisory pack because I had always wanted to have a bakery that looked like a French patisserie, something really beautiful. The gold and marble are obviously inspired by the domes by famous pastry chefs. But I just didn't know how I wanted it. I still think that I don't. We got this as a pop-up for six months and I had been looking for two years and was never being able to find the perfect space. But what is the perfect space? That's probably the question I would ask myself, or anyone else. This one came up and we just went for it and then I approached Design by Golden to see how we could change the fit out to make it work. As you said, it's small.

What was this before?

It was a catering kitchen. It is 120m2. All the rest out the back is kitchen, which is what I needed for production, high volume. This is a test to see whether the audience from online would come to your shop.

And they have, haven't they?

Yes, they have. Which is amazing. It's been really great to have that support. I didn't expect it at all, the lines! It's been pretty consistent so far.

You have been a pastry chef in a restaurant and then you started making and selling cakes over lockdown and now you're in this space. What are the lessons that you've learned from each version of cooking, or do you prefer one more than the other or are they all different and so they have all have goodness?

Absolutely. I think everywhere has different pros and cons. I would definitely say that I've always wanted to be a business owner and have my own shop or patisserie. It's so different from being a chef. From working for someone to being a chef and a chef owner, the responsibility of being an owner is huge. It's probably not what I expected. I got a really good understanding when I worked with Ben Shewry for six weeks setting up Attica Summer Camp. That was a really good learning experience to see it from scratch and all the little details that you have to think about and building and painting and troubleshooting all the little things that come up. But once it's yourself and it's your money that you've strived to save and then just trying to pull that all together with the responsibility of 15 to 20 staff who need to pay their rent in really high cost of living times, it is a lot of pressure, I think.

Is that your staff? 15 to 50? That's huge.

Yes. I have a lot of front of house staff. Mostly because we were having quite long lines and we wanted to make sure that we were keeping that high standard of service, and we didn't want to make people wait. Its really hard to find staff at the moment in Melbourne. Especially for hospitality.

Where did it all start for you? Did you always know that you wanted to be a chef?

Absolutely. Ever since I was little, I've always really loved cakes and all those sorts of afternoon teas that we had with the family. Mum was always doing fundraising and taking slices to her friends, and you'd always take a plate. I'm from Tasmania. It's a very common thing that you do in a lot of communities, raising money, school stalls, things like that. We also had quite a few elderly neighbours and I really loved baking, so I would often bake muffins and then just go and knock on their door and give them the muffins. They were widowed so they would get so excited and happy that this little girl had come and thought about them and brought them a small cake. I have just always really loved making people happy through baking something. That was something that came out during lockdown. So many people sent the dessert boxes to say, I'm thinking about you, or I care about you. Or some people would message me to say they had been looking forward to it for the whole week. It was really overwhelming, but it's really satisfying and part of my job, I think.

When you started your training, you went from cooking at home with your family and then what was the next step?

We did catering courses and things like that in high school. I think it's called home economics, or food studies. Then I went to college, and I just knew that I wanted to be a pastry chef, and I went to Drysdale, which is the equivalent of William Angliss. I studied full-time. At first, I did Cookery and then Patisserie, and then I did an apprenticeship with pastry in Tasmania.

Pastry is so much more precise, and people talk about it as being a bit more of a science. Did that side of it appeal to you as well? You've got the two aspects there, creating and making people happy through delicious, sweet treats, but they are quite complicated.

Absolutely. I'm always troubleshooting, and I think that's something that I really love in my job, trying to be better every day. I'm always like that, trying to get the perfect crumb on the focaccia, all those sorts of things. I'm forever evolving and trying to be better in what I do.

I don't think you'll ever be where you want to be as a chef. I think we're always like that. We're always trying to be better at what we make or what we did last time. There is definitely science behind pastry, you can't just put five extra grams of bicarb in something because it's just not going to work.

I wrote about Summer Camp for Broadsheet. I went out there and I ate beautiful food and I saw that dessert trolley that was just next level. Ben told me about the sponge cake that he had made so many versions of to get it right.

Ben spent months working on it. He's amazing at pastry as well. He was a really good mentor to me. But yes, he spent a really long time developing recipes. They actually do that at Attica. They spend weeks or months or even a year. I think he analyses a dish that he wants to do and spends a long time perfecting it to what he wants. And then sometimes I think it doesn't end up on the menu because as I said, chefs are just like that.

That's amazing though, isn't it? What is your process? Your cakes are so beautiful and things like the eight-layer carrot cake, to get that idea in your head, are you a visual person? Do you use notebooks? Are you like thinking of what it's going to look like first and then how you're going to get there?

I'm definitely a visual person and I'm definitely not a notebook person. Definitely not. I know a lot of chefs are, but I'm not a very good planner. I'm just a go-getter. I think with the carrot cake, I always found if you go to other places, it's always too much cake or not enough frosting. I like frosting and I like cake, but I don't like dry cake, so I just had this idea in my head and now I have this thing with layers that you would've seen. I really like lines of things and a uniform look. I don't think anyone in Melbourne or maybe Australia that I've seen does layer cakes like mine. I think that's just my thing, layer cake, and I just ran with that.

So when you are experimenting or seeing what works and what doesn't work, are you just keeping a mental record of that then?

Absolutely.

Then the next time you do it, you just adjust and then you think ok, that works?

Yes. I'm able to remember numbers and recipes and things like that quite well. Rather than like writing it down and planning it out. I know a lot of chefs love to plan it and then they'll sketch it and everything, but I just skip that part. Which is probably a bad thing sometimes.

Well, it is obviously working for you, I can't even imagine how I would do that. I guess, you when you're used to working with the product, even how you slice it so the layers are all so perfect. Obviously, that's your thing and you're really good at that. But I would just be so nervous every time.

We make the carrot cake in a big slab. But my partner helps me a lot with slicing and things like that. He's a chef. But yes, I like the clean cuts. I think it's just the style that I do. I do the classics, but I just want to do them well. I think that that presenting it that way, clean cut really represents the ingredients that you are using or the quality of the product.

Now, 'successful' is a really tricky word and I understand that, but in terms of gauging how well you're going, is it good to have the kind of viral social media presence you've garnered? Or does it put more pressure on you?

I don't really know how to describe the word success either because a few people have said that to me recently and asked a very similar question to you. I don't really have an answer because I don't know what that is. I don't think of it like that. I'm just trying my best to be better at a lot of different things now. Not just making cakes. Now I'm a business owner and I have staff who are looking up to me. I have my name in the media. There is a level of expectation from previous places that you've worked as well. That's probably more pressure on me social media wise, I'm always trying to be better, but I'm not a marketing expert and I've done it all myself. So I just try really hard. As for the pressure of social media, I don't feel like it is a big pressure because I love to interact with my customers and see them liking it. They like what I'm making and I think that's more motivating for me. I'm one of those people where I buzz off other people's energy. If I wasn't probably getting that it wouldnt feel right.

How many cakes do you have on the go at one time?

In the cabinet? We have about 18 different varieties.

Wow. That sounds like quite a lot.

We also do cheesecakes and we have a couple of different varieties like pandan or vanilla or dulche. But we always have that big variety because I think it can be hard around Melbourne to get that wide variety and one day you might just feel like a chocolate cake, but they're not making it that day. So I have a consistent variety that pleases everyone, all audiences and cultures as well. I've been trying to do different flavours too.

Where do you get that inspiration?

I think it's just my palette from the restaurants I've worked in. Ezard where they focused on Japanese flavours, or Spice Temple. There was a lot of Chinese influence there as well. I've been open to a lot of different flavours, and I just really enjoy them and try and bring them into my cakes as well. I did a six-layer hummingbird recipe and traditionally it's just banana, pineapple and coconut, but I've put yuzu jam through and orange to spice it up a little bit, give it a bit more elevation in terms of flavour.

You were talking about staff and you mentioned a lot of them are front of the house, but you've got staff in the kitchen as well?

Yes. I have a few girls helping me at the moment. I think we are in that stage of our lease coming to an end soon. I actually opened up later than I had thought. I'd already taken my lease on and was paying the rent while we were renovating. My six months had already started, and it was about two months in when we went to media and thingsthat. I actually have to decide in about three weeks whether I'm going to continue my lease. There is quite a bit of pressure. I do have some girls, they're only part-time working with me at the moment. The majority of the prep I do during the week, the small things like making pastry and stuff like that.

You've taken on that role of the owner and head pastry chef, is that a mentoring role as well? Are you teaching people who are coming through or is it more that they have other tasks to do and you've got the main job?

There's such a difference between wanting to have a business or a restaurant or a shop like many chefs do and doing it. Once you actually get to that stage, there are a lot more little things that you have to think about and little pressures and things like that that you don't really account for before. And just trying to manage all those things. At the moment I would prefer to have more experienced staff, chefs, who you don't have to train just because there's a lot going on at the moment.

It must be quite hard for you if you've only been open a short while to make that decision.

Absolutely. We've only been open eight weeks, two months now, coming into two and a half months and no one really knows everything when they first have a business. It normally takes one year or six months to really find your feet, whether it's a make or break situation.

I think there'd be lots of customers who would be disappointed if you closed.

I think so. I was doing front of house on Sunday and a few of them recognised me and said how much they love my cakes and they hoped it was a permanent store. Another one was saying she wanted me to get a bigger shop, because it's small here. There's that expectation that you have from customers and other people, but I think you just have to do what makes you happy at the end of the day and what you want to get out of your career moving forward and evolving,. The popup isn't what I wanted in terms of visuals and I still haven't got seats, which is something that I want to do. It's just making that decision, knowing what the right decision is.

Do you still, then, when it's your business and all of those other things that you mentioned, do you still love making the cakes? Can you still have that passion even though you've got all these other little factors coming in?

Absolutely I think that's my main thing. I love making cakes and making people happy through that and just being in the kitchen and being able to make stuff. It's all the other little things now that can be quite overwhelming.

You've touched on this a little when you talked about some of the memories you have of cakes and desserts when you were growing up and making them for other people. But do you have a particular cake or dessert that you've had that really sticks out in your memory that someone else has made?

That is a really good question. There was a really good restaurant called St. Crispin and also the Town Mouse many years ago. They were savoury chefs, but they made really good desserts. That is what's just popped into my head straight away.

Yes! Dave Verheul from Town Mouse has Embla now. I just saw one of his desserts on Instagram and it was architectural. It was a mille feuille style but really high. I was pretty impressed with that. St. Crispin was Scott Pickett and Joe Grbac.

Exactly. They had really nice dessert. That was an amazing restaurant. I loved that restaurant.

I loved it too. Joe Grbac was the first person I spoke to when I first had the idea for Conversation with a Chef and I've spoken to Dave twice since as well. So just to finish, Rosemary, I often ask this question: with your years of experience and working for different people and for yourself, what would your advice be to a young person who is thinking about becoming a chef or in the early stages of their career?

I think just focus on yourself and what you want to achieve. See your own potential and just work hard at it. Even if you feel like you're not getting anywhere, just keep going. Find a way to keep going, to get to your goal, whether you want to have your own restaurant or your own shop. And just be true to yourself. Try and find your own palette and what you really like rather than listening to what's trending or what's going on elsewhere. Just keep going, I guess.

Mietta by Rosemary, 23 Glenferrie Road, Malvern