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imon Moss is an open-hearted chef who is not afraid of hard work. He believes it gets you places and a month in to his new position at has surrounded himself with good people so he can grow. That's awesome.
Hi Simon, it’s great to talk to you. I’ve been reading about you and there is quite a lot out there about you because you’ve been pretty prolific as a chef.
I’ve had a lucky run I suppose. Hard work does pay off. Since I’ve moved…it sounds as though you’re a Kiwi as well… I am. Since moving to Australia, I moved to Sydney first, it has been great.
I read that you speak really favourably of your mum’s macaroni cheese and I wondered…sometimes chefs have mothers who are really great cooks and that inspires them to be chefs or sometimes their mothers are really bad chefs and that also inspires them for different reasons. Did you always want to be a chef?
No not at all. I think growing up as a kid you’re always in and out if the kitchen and making messes and trying new things but I didn’t feel it was in me to pursue it. Mum’s macaroni cheese was great but that was one of those things attached to emotions. It was mac n’ cheese but if you ate it, it was like, wow, it was the best thing ever but that was because mum made it.
I sort of fell into cooking. It was one of those things. At school I was always a creative person and hated the sit down routine learning things so I naturally progressed through creative things, whether that was design or home economics. All the little pieces came together to make me want to become a chef and it worked out well.
You did your training in New Zealand?
In Auckland.
You must have been on the cusp of things getting really good in New Zealand. There was a time when things weren’t so good and now they’re really amazing and you were obviously on the wave of goodness.
For sure. One of my sous chefs at the time before I left, Sid Sahrawat, who owns Sidart, Cassia. And he’s taking on French Café and the like. There was definitely a skills growth then and then some of it has been sucked out to Australia, which is fine, there’s nothing wrong with that. But from where it was then to what it is now, it’s booming, isn’t it? It’s going off.
It’s a difficult industry and people often say that starting out can be really had because of the long hours and it’s anti-social, it’s stressful; what do you think you have that kept you going?
I think it’s about never giving up. I think I always worked one way or another growing up, whether it was working bees with mates around the neighbourhood, or delivering papers, I always worked, it was one of those things. You have to have that work ethic, first and foremost. If you’re going to be a chef, you have to work hard. Working long hours isn’t that favourable now, with WorkSafe and so on, that’s cool, but just having that never give in mentality is important.
I remember my first job in Auckland, I got placed from school, they guaranteed placement after a course, and the head chef said that within eight months you have to sort your shit out or you have to go. I got through that and work has been good ever since. So I think it’s being able to stick at something, work hard and learn from your mistakes.
It’s interesting you mentioned the difference perhaps in expectations nowadays and a few chefs I’ve spoken to have brought up the hours thing. Of course people should be paid fairly and no one should be exploited but it is one of those jobs that can often involve lots of hours. Where do you stand on that in terms of what you’d say to young people coming through?
It’s such a grey area because hospitality has been an industry where you just work, don’t question and do 16 hour days and that’s just the way it is. Gen Y isn’t wired like that. That’s fine; our industry has to change to suit the times. It’d be a lot easier just telling everyone what to do, but it doesn’t happen like that any more. I’m all for not working too much.
Does that mean you have to cut corners on some things? Like, not training them to fillet fish or not teaching certain techniques because you just don’t have time?
It’s about finding the people to work around. I always try and find the best people and they understand the job and the majority of the time, they want to learn and I’m very fair and if someone is working longer one day, maybe they start later the next day, we work it out. But we can definitely show people stuff in that spare period of time there is in a 40-hour week. I tell the guys, the roster is 38 hours, but we have to do a bit more and I think people either understand that or they don’t and people I want to work with, understand they have to do a few more hours here and there.
You have to have that work ethic, first and foremost. If you’re going to be a chef, you have to work hard.
And for you technique is still important and having strong foundations?
For sure. I tell people if they’re going to work with me, they’re going to learn something. If they’re up for that and up for the challenge, I have all the time in the world for them. Here it’s good because we have a lot of time during the day and I can work closely with people and then at night time it’s busy and all those skills come together. You definitely have to have time to show the people what needs to be done.
The way I run the kitchen is that I try and show everyone everything so that everyone knows everything and someone is on cooking steaks but they’re sick, someone else can step in. It’s very important to make that time to up skill. Otherwise my job becomes harder.
It sounds as though you like upskilling yourself as well. I was reading that when you were starting Entrecôte you went across to France to Le Relais d’Entrecôte and had the food and I really like the way of discovering things from their source.
I know. I had to go and see the concept and try the green sauce and no one knew how to make it so that was another thing to suss out as well. That was a perk of the job. I wish I could go everywhere and do that.
How long were you there?
Only a week. I went over on a pure culinary journey. There were five restaurants I had to go to, plus I went to a couple of others. It’s pretty tough in France on your own. In a foreign speaking country, it’s hard to get around on your own.
I definitely like to up skill. I’ve just hired a guy who is very capable of running kitchens on his own, he has that resume. I’m really lucky to have him on board because he can push me and I can push him. You learn every day, it’s one of those things. I know a lot of people who hire people who aren’t that good to make themselves feel better as the boss. That’s totally not the way to go, in my eyes anyway. I surround myself with awesome people and do good things. It’s the only way to go.
I was thinking when I was driving over about you having that French fine dining background and also you were a long time at Sapore and that’s Italian styles. Often when we think of French food, we think of fine dining haute cuisine, and then when we eat Italian food here, it is often quite simple and hearty. You’ve really crossed the two.
I was classically trained in the French and then I landed the job at Sapore doing Italian. You can sort of marry the two cuisines quite well. You can do Italian food with the French discipline and technique and elevate it to fine dining. What we describe as fine dining changes as well. Those two cuisines cross over well. We do it here as well; we do Italian, French, European food and it works really well here.
Is it still quite heavy on the meat here?
We are big on the meat and we do very good meat. It is a pub so we do parmas and burgers and pizzas as well. I think we’re missing the boat because there’s another market of people who want to sit down and have a nice meal with entrees and mains. That’s why I think I’m here and what I’m aiming to do.
You have some lovely areas to sit here too, don’t you?
We do. You can order anything off the menu anywhere in the place. The one thing we’re going to try and do is have a bistro menu in the bistro and keep everything else a bit separate. Eventually. It will be a process to change people’s perception of the Grosvenor because it is a pub and we don’t want to get into that fine dining mullarkey. We have the main bar, there’s the Atrium, the cocktail bar, the bistro and also upstairs we have a room that seats 100 for functions, so there’s a lot going on.
You came from somewhere that had a lot going on. The Village had all sorts of areas.
The Village was similar.
I don’t know how you even did that. I always think, Executive chefs…god, how to you get your head around it. Were you still on the pans?
In the summer when it was busy, not so much, I was busy organising but I’d definitely jump in when it got busy. That was three different kitchens doing weddings, functions, the bistro, the beer garden. You have to be very organised and have a great team behind you.
That would have challenged a few different skills.
Sure. Doing a sit down 200 cover wedding from the back prep kitchen with other functions going on, definitely. I relish challenges. This is a challenge because there is lots we can do to improve, slowly but surely.
Also, something I hadn’t really thought of …I spoke to Tong Li at The Cricketer’s in Port Melbourne and he is tszujing up the food over there as well and he was saying, coming from a fine dining background and at a pub people come up and order at the counter willy nilly, as you do in a pub, so they can have lots of orders at once, whereas in a restaurant with table service, the front of house can stagger that.
Logistically it’s a challenge so you have to be smart about your menu design. We have table service in the bistro here. I’ve been here for just over a month now and seeing how things go. We have parma night tonight so we’re going to sell 150 parmas. They’re all cooked individually, they’re not deep-fried, they’re cooked in the oven. It’s full on so you have to think about how you’ll make it a easier service. The challenge in the kitchen is to choose dishes that are tasty, smart but easy to put together. It does get crazy when you come from a fine dining background.
The thing with fine dining is that you have discipline and that goes across all genres. If you have that discipline and you’re organised you can make it work. Fine dining is great but this is a good model. There’s a bar, a burger bar, the bistro, the burger truck comes out in summer. There’s a lot going on. It’s fun.
It’s like a village in itself.
It is like a village. The Village was great. I miss it and it’s closing. I’m not sure when it’s opening up. I had a good couple of years there and this is my baby now.
Where do you get your ideas?
Social media I suppose.
Are you one of the chefs who has lots of cookbooks?
I do, I did, but now it’s more from social media. I think I’ve been cooking long enough to understand what goes together. You have to look at trends and what’s happening. I don’t forage for ingredients, it’s not me, but a lot of people do forage.
I’m very in the moment. Now I’m here at The Grosvenor so I’m cooking for the Grosvenor. It’s my style, but to fit The Grosvenor, the clientele here. I can’t come in and go, I want to do this, and it doesn’t for the people who comes here. They’re young people, they’re families older people. There is a whole cross-section so I have to be smart about menu design and not just about my ego. The bottom line is you have to make money but you have to keep customers happy. Customers are an obsession of mine so finding out what fits and what works and what is value for money.
Do you read reviews and feedback? Everyone is quick to comment these days.
You have to. Chefs are artists and it can be very subjective. The chef might think it’s amazing and someone might think its crap. That’s the way it goes. You can take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes someone can have a rant on social media and have a dig at something; you can take something from that. You might not like it, but it makes you stop and look and think maybe you can change some things. You have to look at those things subjectively, on face value. It’s not personal; it’s someone’s opinion.
We get sent reviews online every week from Sophie upstairs, good or bad; it’s part of the business. You put your heart on the plate and it’s not just food, it’s service as well, you can’t always get it right but as long as you get it right the majority of the time, then that’s good.
10 Brighton Road, St Kilda East
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