Once I’d switched off the recorder at Ladyboy, Sumalee Sae-tang and Manpreet Singh very kindly brought out some dishes from their new Beyond Bangkok menu for me to try. As we talked over the food, Sumalee began to tell me more about how much she loves what she does. I also had the chance to meet Gun (Sahakorn Sanitmacharo), their chef, who is from southern Thailand and is enjoying sharing the food of his own region through the series’ first menu. Sumalee and Manpreet met while studying cookery in Melbourne in 2005 and took over the Richmond restaurant more than a decade later. Sumalee is from Bangkok, and their regular menu draws on the food she cooks at home. Beyond Bangkok gives the team room to explore other regions of Thailand while keeping the dishes their regulars would be very unhappy to lose. The yellow curry, I learned, has survived an attempted retirement. They love working with local suppliers, choosing produce, wines and beers for the restaurant. Sumalee still goes out every Tuesday and Friday to buy the vegetables and herbs herself. She wants to be sure she’s getting the best and freshest, and particularly loves picking out the herbs and chillies. We had talked during the recording about how much a customer’s thank you means to her. Afterwards, hearing her enthusiasm for even the shopping, I was glad we’d had time to keep talking.
Ladyboy is very well known. I think of it as a neighbourhood restaurant. It’s been around for a long time, and you both took it over in 2017?
We took it over at the end of 2016 and started in early 2017.
And you decided to keep the name. Why was that?
To be honest, it was our first time taking over a business. When you take over a restaurant, you often keep the name because it already has a customer base. Especially in this area, people already knew it. Ladyboy originally opened around the same time we opened our first restaurant, just around the corner on Church Street, near Swan Street. Then the opportunity came up and we thought, why not? We were running a restaurant close by, so it would be easy to manage. We kept the name and left things as they were, but changed the dishes to our style. We also tried to develop more of a cocktail bar.
Have you always been in hospitality?
Yes, of course.
Is that how you and Manpreet met?
Yes, at school back in 2005. We studied cookery together. We’re both chefs by training.
I think it’s good when chefs run a business. You know you’re going to get good food.
I feel like we know the basics of keeping the food up to standard. But that doesn’t mean you can’t do it if you’re not a qualified chef, because experience teaches you a lot. I’ve worked with people who weren’t qualified, but they’d been cooking for 15 or 20 years. They knew how to do everything. They knew, for example, that leaving something outside too long wasn’t good. The benefit of training is that we learn those things straight away, rather than learning them over 10 or 15 years of experience.
When you came to Ladyboy, you changed it to your style of food. Can you tell me about that?
It was Thai food before, too, but the way of cooking was different. I used my own recipes, which I’ve developed over the years, and the food we cook at home. It’s more homely and approachable.
Is it from a particular region of Thailand?
I’m from Bangkok, in central Thailand, so our food is more central Thai. But we’ve just started a regional series called Beyond Bangkok. It’s exactly what you’re asking about. Every two months, the menu changes and we focus on a different part of Thailand. This one is from the south, where the food is more focused on seafood, so it’s a seafood menu. It’s more like a specials menu. We still have our regular menu, with this as an addition. They can choose an entrée, main or dessert. We’ve also got beer and cocktails as part of the series. Every time the region changes, the menu and drinks change.
Okains Bay pink ling. That’s from New Zealand. I lived over the hill from there. I’ve never seen that on a menu before.
We’re trying to bring in new things. Customers come back for our regular menu, but sometimes you want to refresh yourself by doing something new. When you’re a professional, you want to keep refreshing yourself. Every two months, we try to bring something in to refresh the menu. Our regular customers might want to try something new as well, so we’re trying to bring everything together.
Now I understand that the title has a few meanings. It’s Beyond Bangkok because that’s where you’re from and what your regular menu is based around, but also because people often think of Bangkok as being Thailand. You’re getting people to look beyond that.
Yes. It’s like when people talk about Indonesia and think of Bali. The name will stay Beyond Bangkok, but we’ll change the region and the menu. The curries and whatever else we’re doing are made from scratch. We want to offer regional food rather than the mainstream dishes. Something other than the usual pad Thai. Something original.
Sometimes you’re doing things properly and trying to build everything up, but it isn’t like it used to be. You might think you’re doing something wrong. A little thank you makes you very, very happy.
Sumalee Sae-tang, Ladyboy
Do the spices change in different regions as well?
Yes, they do. In central Thailand, the food is a little sweeter and not as spicy. In the south, there are more spices, turmeric and things like that. The food is a bit spicier, with more seafood and more spices. Bangkok food is a little sweeter and not as spicy, but I’m from Bangkok and I eat really spicy food. When I first opened a restaurant, all my dishes were very spicy. I have to be honest. I had to change the recipes because, when you first open, you don’t know whether you’ve got it right until you hear from customers. For example, if eight out of ten customers say it’s too spicy, you have to cut down the chilli. For the two who say it’s not spicy enough, you can give them chilli on the side. I’m from Bangkok, but I love chilli. I eat a lot of it. I’m trying to cut down a little now.
Can you get good chilli here in Australia?
Yes. Twenty years ago, I used to have to go near Springvale to get a lot of Thai ingredients. But now there are so many Asian products available. Even at the markets, there’s so much fresh produce. It’s easy to find things nowadays. For this regional menu, though, we don’t cut down the chilli. That’s the whole idea. We don’t reduce the chilli or the spices.
House-smoked coconut cream sounds really interesting. Is that traditional, or is it something you’re playing with? Would you have that in Thailand?
The smoked coconut cream is traditional. The sesame tuile is something we’ve played with. We wanted something a little different. Our chef, Gun created this menu.
How long has Gun been with you?
Two or three months. We wanted to refresh things, and we had the opportunity for Gun to join our team. We could exchange ideas and create things together. He made dishes for us to taste, and we talked about what we were happy with and what we wanted to present. It fits with what we’ve been doing, but also with where we want to go next. When you have a good team, you can create good food together.
Things in the industry are quite challenging at the moment. We often hear that Bridge Road is changing and isn’t the same. What have you noticed recently?
It has changed. It’s not as busy as it used to be. But, touch wood, we’re still lucky. We have a lot of regulars and takeaway customers, and every now and then publications write about us. We’ve also got new things happening.
Recently, we had three tables who came especially for this menu. We’re trying to keep doing things, keep developing and bring more people in. Sometimes you have your regular customers and a few other people coming in, but it’s hard. Business has dropped a lot, and you start to feel that you’re doing something wrong.
It isn’t just that you want to be busy. As a chef, you start to feel, “Is my food not up to standard anymore?” Last week, we had customers who came for the seafood menu. Before they left, they came up to thank the chef and say the food was very nice. That made me very happy. It made me feel that we were still going in the right direction.
Sometimes you’re doing things properly and trying to build everything up, but it isn’t like it used to be. You might think you’re doing something wrong. A little thank you makes you very, very happy.
I think that’s a really good point. Sometimes people forget that there are people behind a name and behind a restaurant. The public are fickle as well. They get caught up in new, shiny things, or perhaps they don’t have as much money to spend on going out as they used to. But it must be hard when you’re the person behind it, because of course you take it personally.
Yes. I’ve been a chef for about 20 years, and sometimes I wonder, “Have my skills dropped?” Hearing something like that cheers me up. It makes me think, “Okay, I’ll keep going.” Even if people take the time to give us a little feedback, I’m happy. At least they’ve thought about it.
When we first started, customers knew we were new and were happy to give us comments. We changed the menu a lot, and customers would say, “Where has this dish gone?” That let me know what they liked. We changed a lot of things then, but we change less nowadays.
Is that because people like to have their usual food?
We’ve been here for almost ten years, so people come to eat our menu now. They know what they like. To be honest, it’s because of our customers that we’ve come this far.
It’s one of the reasons we can’t change too much. People come in for certain dishes. They don’t need to read the menu. They know they’ve come for the yellow curry.
I remember once we took the yellow curry off and put something else on, perhaps a green curry. We were trying to change things, and two or three people came in on the same day asking for the yellow curry.
We had to bring it back. That’s why we introduce specials for people to try. We keep the regular menu and try to develop things alongside it.
That’s a good idea. And who does your cocktails? They’re really interesting too.
We have a professional bartender. With the whole menu, it’s more of a team effort than one person’s work. When someone creates a cocktail, the front-of-house and kitchen staff all try it. We taste it together and decide whether it’s good and whether it works with the food. If it doesn’t, we try to change it.
Even though we run our own business, we love going out to see what people are eating and doing. It’s like you interviewing so many people. You get to know what restaurants are doing and why. We go out to eat, and sometimes we try a cocktail and think, “That’s really interesting.” Then we might add something to make it our style. It’s exciting.
It’s the same with the food. When someone creates a dish, everyone, including the front-of-house staff, tries it. We see whether it matches what we do, or whether we can create a drink to match it. Sometimes I’m just making something to eat, and I share it with everyone. They try it and tell me what they think might go with it.
It’s about bringing people together. We have an open kitchen, and last week a few tables got up, walked over to the pass and told the kitchen staff, “That was very nice.” That makes everyone happy. When you see people sharing food and enjoying it, you’re happy too. It’s like sitting at home, sharing food. Every day is like Christmas Day.
Sumalee Sae-tang, Ladyboy
You’ve been in the industry for a long time. What do you love about hospitality and cooking?
If you didn’t love it, you wouldn’t spend 20 years doing the same thing. For me, it’s seeing people happy. I studied Thai cooking back home. Whenever I cooked at home for my nephew, my mum, my sister or my brother, if they said, “That’s really yummy,” I was already happy. I wanted to make it again. When something is really tasty, I make it again and again. It’s a happiness thing. It makes you keep going.
It’s also about bringing people together. We have an open kitchen, and last week a few tables got up, walked over to the pass and told the kitchen staff, “That was very nice.” That makes everyone happy. When you see people sharing food and enjoying it, you’re happy too. It’s like sitting at home, sharing food. Every day is like Christmas Day.
I think you’re right. When we come together over food, we’re often catching up with someone, on a date or celebrating something. We do that with food. It must be nice to be part of that.
Yes.
What brought you to Melbourne?
My brother was here. He studied here, and by that time he’d settled and was working here. I’d studied Thai cooking at home. My sister had also studied here, and she said, “Why don’t you go and study there? You can learn more international cooking.” I thought, “Okay, I’ll have a go.” I came here and studied English first, before studying cookery.
Back home, I’d only studied Thai cooking, so I came here to learn international cooking.
Did you have to relearn any techniques?
The basic cutting techniques are the same, but the vegetables are different. In Asia, we use Asian vegetables. Here, I learned about more international ingredients and the techniques for using them.
French cooking was very good to learn about, too. Back home, it was mostly Thai and Chinese cooking. For example, when we cut chillies, we leave the seeds in because we eat spicy food. In other cooking, you might remove the seeds. Little things like that. In Thailand, my training was more about cooking. Here, you learn how to manage a kitchen as well, rather than just cook in it.
Congratulations on having such a long-running restaurant. Almost ten years is a really big achievement. And I love the idea of this menu. I’ll have to come back. I love seafood.
Come back!
Is there anything else you’d like to talk about?
There’s an organisation helping people in this area. We’ve recently had the opportunity to get involved with volunteering on Victoria Street, Fare Share. I wanted to mention it so more people know about it. They help people who are suffering from hunger and give food another life. They cook food and provide it to people who need it. I’d like to talk about it because, when I went on a tour, they asked us to spread the word to people we know.
They do a great job.
Yes. Sometimes, when you get an opportunity, you want to share it with another person. Now I feel that I’ve shared it.
Ladyboy, 394 Bridge Road, Richmond