Originally from Delhi, Vaishali recently graduated from Le Cordon Bleu with an Advanced Diploma in Hospitality Management. She has a particular interest in patisserie and when she used to work as an auditor, she would bake to relax. What started as a hobby became a dream to own and make pastries and cakes for her own caf and she decided to come to Melbourne to make that happen. We met at Nikos Cafe in Oakleigh on a Friday afternoon and the ambiance was at a premium. I loved it. I think people were speaking Greek to one another and people were ordering the amazing cakes and so on. Vaishali said she wants to own a caf like Nikos and she would love to do that in Delhi, but hospitality is different in India. People work long hard hours for virtually nothing and it is not seen as a worthy career choice. Vaishali loves the way food and hospitality are celebrated here in Melbourne, but she would love to be home. I so appreciated Vaishali's generosity in sharing her story and her obvious passion for patisserie and I really hope with time her future plans will become clear. You can also listen to the podcast here.
Congratulations on graduating your course, Vaishali. And straight out into a job at Pan Pacific?
I have been working ever since I completed my Certificate 3. After six months into my course I already got a job. I have been working ever since.
I didn't know much about the Cordon Bleu before I was invited to the degustation dinner the other night. Why did you choose them rather than any other chef course?
Firstly because it offered me a course I really wanted to do, which was the Advanced Diploma which was more than just practical skills, but more about running operations and running a business. I wanted that because thats what I want to do in the future. I really want to open my new start up and to do that I think you need to be more than just a good chef, you should have the aptitude for business. I wanted to go to Le Cordon Bleu because they had all the things that I wanted; advanced practical skills and the business perspective. Second of all, I did look into a lot of options across various countries but my personal reason for coming to Australia was that I already had family here so I had a little bit of support. And I also thought the name itself was very prestigious, being associated with such a big name gives a good impression in your CV.
How long ago did you come here to start that?
I actually came in 2019 in December and I was supposed to start my course in 2020 in January and the course was supposed to end in March this year, but because of Covid and the lockdown, the course got extended and so we eventually finished in June.
I really like what you were saying about the importance of business because I recently spoke to one of the founders of Fonda, the Mexican restaurants across Melbourne, and he and his friend saw a niche in the market for Mexican street food but they are not chefs and don't have a hospitality background, but he thinks it is much easier for someone like him to set up a restaurant and then get in a chef because the business side of things is so important, so it is interesting that you know that and want to be a chef that has that business background.
Even though I might be working in the kitchen, I should have an idea of what is going on in my business. Even if I hire someone else to handle my business operations, I should have an idea so that no one comes along and fools me.
What sort of business would you like to have?
A cafe more than a restaurant because I'm actually not that much into the cuisine aspect of the kitchen. I am majorly into patisserie. I am a pastry chef. I did my Certificate 3 and 4 in patisserie specifically; that is my forte and my interest area, so I do want to start a cafe and I can hire a chef who can take care of the other things in the kitchen. So, a cafe and maybe in my own country. Probably. The location is not something I am stubborn about but the business structure would be a cafe where people can casually come in for a cup of coffee and some dessert and if they want something savoury, we will have something.
What is it about pastry that you find appealing? I feel as though you have to be very precise with pastry.
That's what I like because it is clearly defined. I am working in Pan Pacific in hot foods as well and it is very different than patisserie. Patisserie is up to a gram that you have to be precise; you can't really go half a gram here, half a gram there. Whatever the recipe says, you have to do it. I like the precision because it ensures 90% that you will get the exact same product and consistency and it is easier to ensure that customer satisfaction is up to the same level and you can control it. That is what my opinion is but I am still working in the hot kitchen which is something new for me and when I have talked to other chefs, they say that cooking is as precise as patisserie but I disagree.
I have always heard about the precision of it and if you don't get it right, then it can fail.
It will either fail or be amazing. There is no in between, I don't think you can fix things as easily as you can in cooking. That might be coming from my inexperience in hot kitchens. I am still exploring that.
I teach French as well as write about food and one of my students asked me the other day whether I had ever tries to make macarons and I have. I went to a class and they are so hard to make.
They are the hardest.
The students were saying that they tried and failed. Why is that? is t about the oven, or the egg white?
It's about everything; it is a combination of everything. This profession started weirdly for me. I wasn't a chef from the beginning, I was an accountant, in auditing to be precise. I used to bake to get my stress out after working in the office. I remember trying to make macarons once and there was so much almond meal that goes into it, it is such a costly dessert and my mother asked me why I even tried when I wasn't confident and it all went in the bin. I think it is to do with the oven and it is the folding process. It is very technical. I remember how stressed I was when we had our exam and we had to make macarons. You don't have enough time to re-do it, you pass or you fail. It is the folding process and it is how you incorporate the egg whites. It is very precise in terms of knowing the consistency you need to have and then many times ovens play a big role. If the oven is not good enough, it will fail.
I didn’t think I would ever work in a hotel, but an opportunity came up and I thought why not? But as for the bigger goal of having my own business, I want to get as much experience as I can before I start that and meet as many chefs as I can and develop as many connections as I can. That is the plan, but the major aim is to start my own place one day and whether that will be Australia or India, who knows?
Do you have a favourite dessert you like to make?
Tiramisu. I love making it and I love eating it and I never get sick of it, it is the best dessert.
When you were baking in Delhi while you were still an auditor, where would you get your inspiration?
Majorly YouTube. I used to watch a lot of YouTube videos. I feel old by saying it but Instagram was not as big as it is now. I used to get home at 11pm and suddenly I didnt want to go to bed so I would bake. I would make some cakes and take them to the office the next day and people liked them and I loved those compliments. Then I thought, why sit in front of a computer for hours doing a job that people tend to ignore? That's where the inspiration came from.
It's brave to change careers like that.
I know it is brave and very nerve-wracking to make a decision like that coming from a family like mine. My parents always wanted me to work in an office with a very good job and an MBA. They had a lot of aspirations for me. It was a really tough decision. I still sometimes get nervous that I might not be able to make something out of it and I fail.
Are you enjoying it?
Thoroughly.
Is it a big kitchen at the Pan Pacific?
It is big enough. It is the biggest I have worked in so far.
Is it stressful or do you like the buzz of service?
This is the first time I have worked in a place where dining service takes place. I worked in Brunettis before and I worked at The Oakleigh Doughnut Co. Back in India I worked in a place that was a similar concept to Brunettis, so I have always been in outlets where I was out the back and I didn't know when the customers are going to eat it. In the hotel, the customer orders it and it straightaway goes to them. It is a la carte. It is a good experience and I am learning the hot kitchen stuff which is interesting because it is something beyond patisserie and I do want to get a taste of everything. I don't want to be stubborn about patisserie, even though it is my area of expertise.
What is the process at Le Cordon Bleu in terms of the course?
My course was all structured around baking and patisserie. We didn't do different cuisines.
Is that mainly French-style patisserie?
It is. It was good because we were learning the original stuff. The recipes are really nice which work outside the kitchen as well. I did a short training course back in India and things worked out when we were with the chefs in the kitchen but when I wuld try the same things at home, they somehow failed. The recipes had a glitch or we weren't given the knowledge about how to substitute things. At Le Cordon Bleu they share the recipes but also give the substitutes you could use which was a nice aspect of the learning.
I guess too that it is important to learn how different ingredients work and then how different combinations work, not just reading recipes. Does the Le Cordon Bleu give that background knowledge?
Yes they do. The chefs are highly trained and have run operations themselves. It is nice to learn from someone who has a lot of experience in the industry.
Do you still do some baking at home?
Not really. After eight or nine hours of shift I don't have much energy when I get home.
Do you get much of a chance to go and eat in other restaurants?
I do occasionally. I try to explore different places on my days off. But I am quite lazy and tend to relax on my days off.
Do you have a favourite place?
I don't have a place I go to regularly; it is always a different place because I don't want to repeat things unless they are amazing and I want to try new things.
Do you still get inspiration from YouTube?
Mainly Instagram now. I follow a lot of chefs and they have small clips and tips. It is much more interactive now. YouTube is quite one-sided, but on Instagram you can comment and ask questions.
Do you have a plan going forward for how long you might be where you are?
I have been making those plans, but they tend to deviate a lot. I didn't think I would ever work in a hotel, but an opportunity came up and I thought why not? But as for the bigger goal of having my own business, I want to get as much experience as I can before I start that and meet as many chefs as I can and develop as many connections as I can. That is the plan, but the major aim is to start my own place one day and whether that will be Australia or India, who knows?